Black

Erez: Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talk Switches.

I'm Erez from ZSA and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead.

It is hot and we are recording this on a Wednesday that for some reason keeps feeling like a Monday to me.

I've had a problem lately with Tuesdays where I think Tuesday is Wednesday.

Erez: Wednesday is like a more chill day somehow.

Like they say hump day and the middle of the week, but I don't know, I would take Wednesday over Monday anytime.

Erez: What are we going to talk about today?

Tisha: Well, we carry two types of Black switches.

You'll probably have seen a pattern by now.

Like, in my opinion, obviously, as I say over and over again, obviously this is kind of all in my opinion, but to me, they feel very similar to each other.

They're closer even than a lot of the other Kailh-Cherry pairs.

They are linear and they're heavy linear switches, heavy-ish, they're not extreme.

Erez: So quite different from the Silvers?

I actually dug up an MX Black keyboard from my storage and I'm just typing on it with one hand, with my right hand, and with the left I'm typing on Silver.

And Silver is like your every day switch, right?

If you just look at the numbers, it looks like the difference might not be that big, but to your fingers, they feel a big difference.

Like extrapolated over thousands and thousands of keystrokes per day, it starts making a difference.

Erez: I guess I ask this as a Silver user, why would someone go for a heavier switch, a heavier linear switch?

Tisha: Well, I think that if you already are like a heavy typer, if you kind of pound on your keyboard, then you might find it more satisfying to type on a heavier switch, something that pushes back on your fingers a little bit.

And, I think anyway, that having more resistance might mean that you don't bottom out quite as hard.

Might just make that impact a little softer because there's a little bit more in the way between the top of the switch and the bottom out.

Tisha: If that makes sense, maybe it doesn't make sense.

Erez: So you're not as likely to mistype and you're not as likely to bottom out?

Tisha: I think so, you know, obviously it depends kind of on your particular style but, if you are kind of a heavy typist and you're not prone to hand and finger fatigue so much, then you might like a heavier switch.

I am a heavy, like I'm a keyboard pounder totally.

They have a real satisfying feel to me, but for typing on all day long, it can get a little tiring.

I guess if we think about, you know, a typical computer user, a keyboard is really the main physical interface.

It's really, for me, at least it's the main single object I touch, I guess.

Like, if you look at like, maybe my bed more, right?

If I sleep at night, if you look at the number of hours, but like with my hands, certainly it's like the number one thing I interact with on a daily basis, right?

Erez: So the keyboard is the number one thing I touch when I work.

And if I imagine an extreme example, let's say one of my keys was broken and would actuate twice or wouldn't actuate and whatever.

I would probably get pretty aggravated trying to use that keyboard.

I would get annoyed and I couldn't fix it or whatever, I'd be stuck with it.

And I'm pretty sure this frustration would kind of leak into whatever I'm doing, whatever I'm writing, emails, Slack, whatever, right?

Erez: It would be felt because my environment is frustrating.

A big part of my environment is frustrating.

Would you say that typing on a firm switch, like where you have to literally exert more force as you're working, like type, type, type.

Do you think that can make a difference in the tone of your communications or anything like that or not?

So I think that there are two different relationships there, or two different aspects to that relationship.

And one is maybe what you describe that having to put more effort into using a tool that you very crucially rely on, having to put more effort into using that than normal, will be frustrating and may affect the rest of your work.

Sure, and on the other side of the coin, I think that your state of mind, your mood, sometimes even the particular task will affect how you use the tool.

So, I definitely notice differences in my typing depending on, I don't know, just depending on certain things.

My typing becomes noisier, both when I'm frustrated and sometimes if I'm just kind of just really into the flow.

If I'm hesitant, if I'm kind of thinking pretty intently as I'm typing then it's a little softer.

If I've just got a lot of words and they're coming out quickly and easily, it's probably noisier.

I'm probably typing a little more firmly.

I might've mentioned this before, I don't remember, but the last office job that I had, the walls between our offices weren't the most soundproof things that you can imagine.

Tisha: Also my desk was right up against a wall that I shared with the office next and the person on the other side of the wall told me that they could tell when I was annoyed because of the way that my typing sounded across the wall.

I think both depending on the person, obviously

I get it because it's basically a keyboard that can take it.

A mechanical keyboard is a tactile and solid-feeling thing as it is when it's well-made.

And so if you kind of pair that with a muscular key switch, you can really pound on it and it's fine.

It feels like there's an appropriate amount of feedback there perhaps, versus if I do that on a laptop keyboard, or even on the Kailh Silver, right?

Blue

Erez: Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches.

I'm Erez from ZSA and with me here today is Tisha, our resident

Tisha: Yeah, it's been kind of wet here as well.

So I guess a good starting point is what is a clicky switch?

I mean, MX Blue is not the only one, right?

I think people who like them, like them a lot.

And I think people who don't like them dislike them a lot.

[laughing] But it's one of the three, I guess, kind of main

And so you said it's, it's, it's interesting.

It's one of the more controversial types, right?

I mean, I can't really think of anyone saying, "Oh, I hate linear switchers."

But you definitely get that kind of feeling about clicky switches.

I think the more, uh, let's say the more senses that are involved,

Erez: So if I'm just kind of getting started and I'm thinking,

Do I want to go maybe tactile," when is a clicky a non-starter or who might be a

good fit for a clicky switch of any sort?

Well, and I'm sorry, I didn't really answer your question before,

which is that a clicky switch is, um, you can think of it like a

Tisha: So there is just another, depending on the switch, another little mechanism

or just another one or two little pieces inside the switch that make a

clicking sound, kind of an extra clicky sound in addition to whatever noise you

I think a lot of times it just comes down to the fact that some people

like that, you know, that typing on a mechanical keyboard, click,

click, click sound, and maybe they like that extra sensory feedback.

So you're getting visual from seeing what you're typing if you're looking

at the screen and typing along, you're getting tactile because clicky

switches have a tactile bump and you're getting auditory feedback

So in a sense, if that sort of thing kind of helps you get into a state of

If it helps you to hear yourself working, you know I guess immersive is a, is a

good word to surround more of your senses with, with the work that you're doing,

And the people who might not want to consider a clicky switch are,

people who for instance, need to type or take notes while on Zoom calls.

Unless you want to be quick with your mute button a lot.

Or if you share a workspace either, you know, in an office, you have an

office mate, or you're in an open workspace and the people you share your

Um, or if you work from home and the people you live with

I mean, just as you get into the flow and kind of get into this, you know,

burst of typing and, and, and thoughts just pouring out for somebody else, your

So then speaking of flow, would you, and, and, and this immersiveness, would you say

clicky switches in general typically have some sort of an impact on typing speeds?

I think that something like that would completely depend on the individual.

I do think that I'm more comfortable or maybe the right way to say

it is just that I prefer to type on a tactile or clicky switch.

Tisha: But I can't necessarily say that they affect my typing speed.

Brown

I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident

It's getting to be springtime here in Southern Ontario, and I'm liking it.

Tisha: [laughs] It is here too in Chicago, and I'm a winter

So today we're here to talk about some Brown switches, right?

We carry a few different Brown switches, mm-hmm [affirmative].

So those are, those will be tactile switches.

Erez: So maybe we kind of covered this in the intro, but maybe let's,

Tactile switches have, basically, a little bump of additional resistance,

usually at the point the switch actuates, to give your fingers a

You know, to me, one thing, reading descriptions of tactile switches, it

always, when I read the description, it always seems like that bump

Whereas I find that, at least for me subjectively, often it just feels like

I, yeah, I do know what you mean, and it, it depends on the switch.

Some of them, I wouldn't say any of them that we carry, but there

are switches out there with big tactile bumps where it is something

But a lot of them it's more like ... This is maybe kind of a funny description,

but like kind of the opposite of a notch.

It feels kind of like, almost like a recess in the line

Although we describe it, and it is commonly described, as a bump, so

that's kind of the opposite of a notch, but think something generally

kind of small like that, not, not big like a stop, but small like, like a

I think something a lot of people have experience with, now that

Sometimes you have a half press, and then you press all the way down, like

half press to focus and then you press all the way down to take the picture.

Erez: And there it really stops you, and I think for me that's kind of

That was my experience with a type of switch that has a midway thing, bump.

Erez: But it's, it wasn't really like that at all.

Tisha: No, for the most part it's not going to be that severe at all.

It's just, ... I'm trying to think of a, of an analogy.

Maybe like if you're, [laughs] if you think of a hardwood floor

that's made of little planks of wood that are closely joined together.

And if it's done well, so everything's nice and even, but you run your

fingers over the floor, you'll just feel kind of a teeny little

But even if you haven't done it, maybe you can kind of imagine what it might be like.

Tisha: We're talking about a small sort of ... texture change.

Well, maybe that's not quite the right word, but maybe more like

a seam than a bump would be a good description in some cases.

Erez: So if it's that subtle, would you say the, the audio

profile of those switches is, is kinda like the linear ones?

Or is there a difference between, you know, when you're

Of course it depends on more than just the switch itself, but for

the most part they are going to be noticeably louder than linear switches.

Erez: They are gonna be noticeably louder?

Not as loud, you know, so you, you've got kind of the three big

categories, linear, tactile and clicky, and these are in the middle.

But again, for the most part, they're going to be louder.

There are things hitting other things inside the switch.

Tisha: And probably also that extra bit of force that you need, ... to I, I guess

clear for lack of a better word, the tactile bump will will tend to make a

Clear

I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and Support Lead.

Kind of rainy here around Chicago, but, oh, it's okay.

At least it's not a million degrees outside.

Here it's cloudy in southern Ontario, but cloudy but not cool.

Like I can walk around with a t-shirt, so it's nice.

[laughs] Yeah, it doesn't sound nice to me.

Tisha: I think that I've determined that I really like the upper teens.

But, and I also like the upper teens Fahrenheit because I like actual cold, but...

I was talking to an Israeli relative recently and they were somewhere and it was, I think, 17 Celsius or something.

I have some relatives in California and, uh, you know, I know we have a lot of listeners who use Celsius and my mental conversion is not great, so if I say, you know, it's in the 60s Fahrenheit.

So let's say less than 20 Celsius probably, right?

Tisha: "Oh, and we had to wear coats, so it was so cold.

[laughs] that's [crosstalk] 48 00:01:36,733 --> 00:01:44,333 - Erez: But the thing is- like when you, when you're in that climate, it really does feel that way because your body gets used to whatever, you know, temperature it's in, right?

So it, it really 17 Celsius, it really feels cold all of the sudden, you know what I mean?

But, and if you're in the Midwest, and I think the same goes for you know, the middle of Canada where you've got these extremes, I don't know.

You don't really get used to anything in particular 'cause it's hot, hot, hot in the summer, and cold, cold, cold in the winter.

Erez: Yeah, I love that about southern Ontario.

Like summer is summer and winter is winter.

So we are gathered here today to talk about Cherry MX Clear-

... Erez: which is a pretty exotic switch as these things go, I think, right?

It's kinda hard to call anything that Cherry makes specialty 'cause I guess that would be like calling something that Google offered specialty or something [laughs] Microsoft offered spe...

To be fair, Google does offer some really niche and weird stuff.

Like ever hear of AppSheet or like stuff like that?

They have these weird products that like five people use and then they discontinue them.

. ... Erez: does do like niche stuff I think.

Years ago they had Google Reader which I really liked, and so [crosstalk] 89 00:03:06,247 --> 00:03:07,257 - Erez: That was not niche!

That was great and they should have kept it.

That was a terrible decision to stop that.

Tisha: I mean, to hear them talk about it, it was niche.

We're gonna discontinue, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Copper

... Erez: which is a very weird thing to be drinking.

Like, have you ever tried coffee with honey?

Tisha: I have had, I think not just by itself, but there's a coffee shop not too far away from here, and a nice like independent one who, you know, and they have, I think, excellent coffee, uh, who make a lavender honey latte.

Like I, I was- I was, I was making this thing and my wife like, "What are you doing?"

So she's like, "It's like tea but with coffee."

I, I have become kind of a honey convert as a, an adult.

I didn't think much of it as a kid, but, um, I really like honey now.

And so I think, I think it'd be good in coffee.

Tisha: I'm having just a regular old coffee.

Tisha: Well, it is one of Kailh's Speed Switches and it's a tactile one.

We've talked about other Kailh Speed Switches, the Silver, which is a linear, and the Gold and Thick Gold/Brown-- Bronze, excuse me, which are both clicky.

So now this is their tactile one, meaning it's got the tactile bump but no click, and it's a Speed Switch which means it's got the very high actuation point.

You barely have to press it down at all before it registers your key press.

Erez: Assuming before the tactile bump as well?

To me, I have to be pressing the switch very slowly and deliberately to notice that, um, but that's just me.

I know that there are some people who, in regular use find it a bit odd.

I would say that most people, just in kind of regular typing, just text, email, whatever, I would say most people probably don't notice that.

Erez: They will notice it via false actuations, basically?

Just get characters when they're not expecting it?