Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. I'm Erez from ZSA and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. How are you today, Tisha?

Hi. I'm pretty good. How are you?

I'm good. I'm drinking coffee with honey-

Oh, nice.

which is a very weird thing to be drinking. Like, have you ever tried coffee with honey?

I have had, I think not just by itself, but there's a coffee shop not too far away from here, and a nice like independent one who, you know, and they have, I think, excellent coffee, uh, who make a lavender honey latte.

That's... Yeah, that sounds good. Like I, I was- I was, I was making this thing and my wife like, "What are you doing?"

[laughs]

I said, "I don't know. I'm gonna try it out." There's some cream in there, too. So she's like, "It's like tea but with coffee." Anyways, yeah. But it works.

Yeah, no. I think it sounds good. I, I have become kind of a honey convert as a, an adult. I didn't think much of it as a kid, but, um, I really like honey now. And so I think, I think it'd be good in coffee.

Yeah, it works for me.

It's good in most things. [laughs]

[laughs]

I'm having just a regular old coffee.

Nice.

[laughs]

So, Kailh Copper. What can you tell us about it?

Well, it is one of Kailh's Speed Switches and it's a tactile one. We've talked about other Kailh Speed Switches, the Silver, which is a linear, and the Gold and Thick Gold/Brown-- Bronze, excuse me, which are both clicky. So now this is their tactile one, meaning it's got the tactile bump but no click, and it's a Speed Switch which means it's got the very high actuation point. You barely have to press it down at all before it registers your key press.

Assuming before the tactile bump as well?

Right, right. Yeah, the difference there is small. To me, I have to be pressing the switch very slowly and deliberately to notice that, um, but that's just me. I know that there are some people who, in regular use find it a bit odd. I would say that most people, just in kind of regular typing, just text, email, whatever, I would say most people probably don't notice that. A few people will. I don't.

They will notice it via false actuations, basically? Just get characters when they're not expecting it?

There's that or for some people I guess it just as they're watching the you know, the output of their typing, I gue... I don't know. It's just kind of like a weird feeling that, oh, things are happening not, sort of, in the order that I expect. I'm seeing the character just before I feel the bump-

Oh.

and they're expecting the other way around.

I get that. It's like when I'm... Sometimes I watch a video online or something, and then it seems to me like there's this tiny delay between the audio and video-

[laughs] Yeah.

especially when somebody's talking. I'm like, "Is it-

Right.

there? Is it not there?" Like the lips are not quite like it's, you know, milliseconds away. So that, that type of thing where like, uh, there's like a... Somethings weird, that kind of feeling?

Right. Well, I assume so. [laughs] I'm just kinda making assumptions, or kind of assuming what other people may feel because, like I said, I don't get this feeling, but I've heard from just a, a really small number of people who say, you know, "Oh my gosh. I don't like the fact that this actuates before the bump. It, you know, it seems weird to me." So that's what I, I think they're probably talking about, but I don't have like- yeah, I don't have like a firsthand account [laughs] I guess. But anyway, I guess if you already know that you don't like the really fast actuation, then this might not be for you. On, you know, on the other hand, if you know that you like Speed Switches, if you like that effect in gaming or if you like to type with a really light touch, that sort of thing, then this might be for you. It's a nice tactile kinda springy feeling switch.

Mm-hmm [ affirmative]. So it's actually rated, on our website at least, as 40. We're just talking before the episode. Some people say it's 40. Some people say it's 50 grams of force. But we took Kailh's spec as 40-

Right.

which it's 10 grams lighter than MX Brown.

Um, 15.

15, mm-hmm [affirmative].

I think MX Brown is rated at, yeah, 45... Or no, five. I'm sorry.

55, yeah.

I, I can't do math. The Brown switches are rated at 45-

Oh.

and yeah, sorry.

So just slightly lighter in rating?

Right, right. If you go to Kailh's, you know, Kaihua, the, the maker of the switch, if you go to their website, they have a few different numbers. [laughs]

On the same page.

Uh, of... Right. What-

Like the, the, the- the page URL calls it purple- ... and then you go there and in the purple it's actually Kailh Copper. And then they say 40 grams, and in the same page they say 50 grams so-

Right. [laughs] so... Right. So, you know, I don't know if they... I don't know what that's about. [laughs]

[laughs]

But in practical terms, [laughs] the other switch that we carry, which is rated at 40 grams of force, is the Kailh Silver. And, at least for me, the Kailh Copper feels really notably heavier. Part of that is because it's a tactile switch, so you've got the extra resistance from the bump. The other part, I used this word before, which is maybe not a super helpful description, but, it's just a springier feeling switch. Like, it feels... To me the, I think, firmness is more felt on the upstroke maybe than the downstroke. It's kind of like the spring recoils more strongly

Hm. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

So I'm just kind of alternating messing with Kailh Copper switches and Silver. Yeah, it's not super light feeling like the Silver. In fact, to me, I think it even feels a bit firmer than the Cherry MX Brown. I don't know that this is everyone's experience

Which would explain the 50 rating, then-

Right.

if MX Brown is 45. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Right. So it's a, kind of a light/medium tactile switch. And it has a, sort of a gentle rounded tactile bump, not a, not a sharp crisp one.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

It's a, it's a pretty gentile tactile bump. I think if you want something [ laughs] less linear than a linear switch but with a bit more feedback to it, then this, this might be a, a good choice. You don't want something that you have to really push through like a Cherry MX Blue or something with the sort of sharper feeling tactile bump like the Kailh Box Brown I think. This has a bump that, to me, feels, I haven't looked recently at the actual force curves, but to me, the feeling, the tactility, the tactile-ness, [laughs] um, is more similar to Cherry MX Brown than it is to Kailh Box Brown.

Mm. Okay. So then you don't... So again, it, it actuates before the bump, but the bump itself is somewhat, I don't know how to call it, like rounded or more refined. Like it's not a sharp thing, but it's, I don't know, gentle I guess?

Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what I tend to say. It's a gentle rounded bump, kinda more like a l-... [ laughs] more like a low hill than a steep little point.

Is this a good switch for Zoom calls and such?

I would say it's okay. it's not as quiet as a linear switch. It's... The sound quality is different than something like Cherry MX Brown, but it's probably not really quieter or louder.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

I don't know if you can hear this. [laughs]

Not really, actually.

Okay. So, I have the, you know, the kind of the headset mounted mic and, you know, uh, if I'm typing along with a mic not super close to the keyboard, and this is Kailh Copper...

I can hear something, but very subtle.

Right. So yeah, if, I think if your mic isn't real close to your keyboard, then that might be okay.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

If your mic is close, then it might be a little loud.

That, that actually still sounds okay.

Oh, okay.

There's nothing grating or high pitched about it. I, I could hear it, but...

It is a lower, slightly lower pitched sound than Cherry MX Brown.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

So yeah, it might not be too bad, depending on your setup and the, I don't know, irritability levels of your co-workers. [laughs]

Right. Do you have a sense of who tends to like this switch? Which, which type of user tends to go for a Kailh Copper?

That is... That's a good question. I think it might be someone who likes... Maybe someone who wants to be able to type with a really light touch because it, even though this switch feels kinda maybe firmer than its description, because of the high actuation point, you barely need to tap it, you know?

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

So, if you wanna type with a light touch but, you want something with a little more, I don't know, well, you know, feedback something that resists your fingers a bit more than Kailh Silver, than maybe that, I think... I could be full if it here, [laughs] so I'll, uh, give that warning up front. But, occasionally people ask if, a tactile switch might help them decrease their, it might help them avoid bottoming out-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

some. And in general, my opinion is, for most people, probably not because the bumps aren't... they don't stop your fingers. Our tendency is just to push through.

Right.

But with the Copper, and this applies, again, if you're a light touch typist, if you... Then I think in this case it might help you not bottom out because the actuation comes before the bump. If you just tap, tap, tap really lightly and stop when you feel resistance, not when you've pushed all the way through, then it might help you not bottom out if that makes sense.

Right. Yeah. I get it. I get it. Though I would guess that if you are a light typist anyway, then maybe bottoming out is not a huge issue for you.

That's true, although it would be a lot easier with a linear switch. Like if you-

Mm, right.

right, went with a Kailh Silver, it's, you know, super easy to press. There's so little resistance, I guess- [laughs]

Yep. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

um, that it's easy to just push until it stops 'cause-

Yeah, yeah. I, I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah.

When I use Silver then I really I tend to use the bottom out as my feedback almost.

[laughs]

It, it kinda almost becomes my tactile feedback.

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Kailh Copper is kind of, for some reason, a harder switch for me to talk about. It's a little bit of an odd duck to me, I think because of the combination of Speed Switch and tactile.

Which Kailh Brown, Kailh Brown is not a Speed Switch is it?

Right. The Box, Kailh Box Brown is, is not. It's a, a standard sort of actuates about halfway-

Right.

switch. Right.

I was just strolling up in our previous episode notes here. But yeah, that's just, it's just a tactile switch. There's no, uh-

Right.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Right. And I think also what makes it trickier for me to talk about or think about is the low force rating isn't necessarily reflected, um, [ laughs] in, I don't know, reality and practical terms, at least for me.

I hear. We should probably interview Kailh and ask them about that. [laughs]

[laughs] Right, yeah.

Which is the right number? I'll, I, I might do that.

Right. And also, you know, these things feel, feel differently to everyone. I think that some people do find that they feel lighter than, for instance, a Cherry MX Brown. People's experiences of this switch might be more varied than some other switches-

Hm.

I think. I'm not sure why, but that's my sort of vague impression from what I've heard people say about this switch.

Got it. Would you say it's relatively popular or is it...

Moderately so, yeah.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

It's not a big biggie like, you know, Cherry MX Brown is a, is a big one.

Oh, yeah.

And, you know, Kailh Silver is a pretty big one, too.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

And I have to say the, now that the Cherry MX Silent Red is available from Moonlander, that's become a pretty big one, too.

Mm. Awesome. Anything else we wanna say about the Copper?

Hm. [ laughs] I don't think I can think of anything else. Yeah, it's kinda different. But, I think especially if you know you like the Speed Switch type of switch, it's something that you might wanna think about.

Awesome. Well, thank you very much.

Sure. Thank you.

You have a good one.

[laughs] You, too.