Hello and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. I'm Erez from ZSA and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. How are you today, Tisha?

Hi, I'm doing okay. How are you?

Good, good. Can't complain. Well, I can complain-

[laughs] Right.

'Cause it is actually a bit cloudy and rainy, but not too bad. I mean, all in all, I'm happy.

Sure. It's like five million degrees here. So-

[laughs]

[laughs] Uh, definitely worth complaining about, but yeah. Other than that, I guess everything's okay [laughs].

That's good. That's good. So, White.

Yeah.

What switches are we gonna talk about today?

Well, we're really only going to talk, in detail, about one. Which is the Kailh Box White. We used to carry two White switches. The other one being, as you might be able to guess, Cherry MX White, but Cherry discontinued that switch, so we no longer carry it either [laughs]. There are keyboards out there, of ours, that have this switch, so, if anyone is familiar with it and maybe wants to compare it to the Kailh Box White, we can talk a little bit about it. It was a kinda slightly heavier, maybe medium-weight, clicky switch with a muted-sounding, kinda lower-pitched click.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Than something like a Cherry MX Blue, for example. But, yeah. It isn't being made anymore and, confusingly, there also is a switch called Cherry MX Nature White. Which was something different.

Nature White?

Yes [laughs].

So, basically the type of switch that you'd just find, like, in the woods. In the wild.

Yeah, I guess so. Maybe they grew on some sort of tree [laughs].

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

I think Cherry also may have discontinued those as well. I am not really sure. Now, I guess it's been a little while since I've looked, but the last time I looked, the information about Cherry MX Nature White was not very conclusive [laughs].

Interesting.

Yeah. So, I think that Cherry is not making a switch with "white" in its name right now.

I think my favorite piece of trivia on the MX White is that, in Asia, it used to be called Milk. Apparently, they called the MX Clear, "White" in Asia. So, then they ended up calling the White, "Milk."

Oh, interesting.

[laughs]

I mean, it was confusing no matter what because you had White and Clear, in English-speaking and just maybe outside of Asia. But both of them had, basically, white stems [laughs].

Right.

You had to look at them really closely to tell them apart.

Yeah, like, I think the White, the MX White, aka "Milk", had, like, a little nub or something. Like, a teeny-tiny protrusion, I think. On the stem or something. Anyways...

Oh, you could be right. All I know is that the Clear was, like, slightly more translucent-looking. [laughs] Anyway, also if you buy the switch sample pack, the "variety pack" of switches for us, I believe that the ones that are available right now still do have a Cherry MX White switch in them. 'Cause we put those variety packs together when we still had stock of Cherry MX White switches. So, that may be a little confusing for some people. Sorry about that [laughs].

Or a way to get your hands on a vintage switch.

That's true. Maybe you could sell it on eBay for, like, $500.

[laughs]

I don't know. Please do not quote me on that [laughs].

[laughs] So, really what's available now is the Box White. The Kailh Box White.

Yes. Yes.

So what sort of switch is that?

Well, it also is a clicky switch. We kind of describe it as having a muted click. It is a sort of light/medium weight switch. I believe its force rating is the same as Cherry MX Brown and Kailh Box Brown? Although, it, you know, it feels different. As, you know, as it would, 'cause it's a different type of switch. So, it's not heavy, but not super light and it's clicky, but not particularly loud. Those are the basics.

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

It's a Box switch, so it's got the little box around the stem and it is an RGB switch. So, it's available for Moonlander and for the Glow keyboards. But, because it's a Box switch, it's not available for the ErgoDox EZ Original or Shine or for the Planck EZ without backlighting, because of keycap compatibility issues.

Right. You know, speaking of the general Box design. When doing a bit of research for this episode I came across the Kono website. Kono.store. It's-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

They sell nice mechanical keyboards.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

And they sell some loose Box White switches and I really like their copy. They say here... And I guess this goes for all box switches. It says, "The slider design and sealed contacts provide superior contaminant protection." You know, like, it sounds very hardcore.

Yeah [laughs].

"If liquids or dust somehow penetrate a switch, lower housing vents and a slider drainage port eject the unwanted substances." I like that. I don't know, that's a piece of copy that I like.

[laughs] Yeah.

And it makes me feel good about Box switches. Like, man, like, those are very serious switches.

Right.

So...

Yeah, that's cool. I guess the one thing that would worry me a little bit about that, the eject part, is that where it's gonna eject stuff, is, like, right onto your PCB.

[laughs]

[laughs]

That- that is a fair point. Yes, it will eject it onto the circuit board.

Right. So, I wouldn't count on them to protect your keyboard from spills, but the switches themselves are gonna be a little more resilient, I guess. It's how I might think about it.

Right. Which, actually, I mean, if you catch a spill on time, it does allow you to quickly, you know, pop everything off, open the housing and just wipe down the circuit board and maybe you'll be okay. Like, some people have done that, right?

Right. Right. Or just, like, everyday dust. They probably are better protected from, you know, just everyday dust and stuff that totally does get onto and into your keyboard. And, your minor, like, little drips and stuff that- that happen.

Cat hair proof.

Oh my goodness. Yeah.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Okay. This, like, this kind of level of environmental protection goes to all Box switches, like we said.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

But if we go back to the White-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

So, I guess I almost always ask this. Who is a good candidate for a Box White switch? Like, who should think about maybe getting one or trying one out?

I tend to kind of think of them as sitting between one of the Brown switches and the Cherry MX Blue because they're clicky, which the Blue switch is, but they're not as loud. And they're lower-pitched. So, if you think you might like something clicky, but maybe a somewhat more officemate/housemate-friendly click [laughs]. This might be a good option. Or if you're thinking, "I like the sound of a tactile switch like a Brown switch, but I want something [laughs] just a little bit more." You know. "I want something just a little extra."

Right. Although, these would be lighter than the Brown, right? In terms of, like, the actual actuation force?

They might be rated so, but to me, they feel just the tiniest bit heavier than the Kailh Box Brown which might be just because of the clicker.

Yeah.

I don't know if they have a bar or a leaf or, you know, what mechanism they use. But, you know, there's-

I think it's a bar.

Right. So there's another little something in there, probably just adding a tiny bit more resistance. And I think that the bump on the Kailh Box White feels just a tiny bit firmer than the Kailh Box Brown.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

So, yeah.

So, if I like the idea of having a clicky switch, but maybe my, like you said, my officemates or housemates are not excited about the idea-

[laughs]

Then it would be a good switch to, kind of almost a compromise.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Yeah. If the people that you share a space with really want things quiet, then maybe not [laughs]. But, if you think going, say, one step above, in noise level. One step above a standard tactile switch, then this might be a good choice. I might think of, say, a Blue switch compared to a Brown switch, as being two or three steps in noise level to use a shaky metaphor [laughs]. There's quite a bit of difference. There's less difference between the Kailh Box White and a tactile switch in noise level.

Right. And so, going back to the tactility of it. So-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

If I understand correctly, you say that, as a result, maybe as a result of having a click bar-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

The tactile aspect of it is crisper? Than, let's say, a Brown?

Yeah. A little bit.

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

It's not a huge difference, but it's a little difference.

Do you have a board with, or some Box Whites on hand?

I do, yeah. I don't know if you can hear this, but this is a Kailh Box Brown.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

And this is the Box White.

Oh, interesting. So, the click is actually very subtle. You know-

Yeah.

Had you played that to me and said, "Is that a clicky switch?" I don't even know if I would say, "Yes, it's clicky." Like, it really blends in there.

Yeah. It really does. It's maybe just a little bit louder. A little bit louder tactile.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

If you really listen you can... kinda hear that. It's almost more like a crunch than a click. I think typing on it quickly, it's almost more like the sound of walking on gravel.

Interesting. So it's not very high-pitched.

Right. Right. So, here's blue. Which has that kind of ticky sound.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

And White.

Oh, definitely lower-pitched.

Right. I'll always say this when we play the sounds of switches: this is how they sound in my keyboards, on my desk, in my room, under my fingers. All of those elements are gonna be different for you. I would use these sounds that you hear as general guidelines, but I would expect things to sound different for you. Because they're gonna be used differently. Your environment and your use is gonna be a bit different than mine. Or maybe a lot different.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

I have to say, you know, I've never given the Box White switches very serious thought. Like, this is the first time I've been really considering them since we've decided to start offering them, of course, when I first looked at them.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

And this is gonna make me wanna try them out. Maybe I'll, [laughs] maybe I'll outfit a board with Box Whites. I mean it's a nice switch. Like, something that's clicky, but not too demanding and that maybe is okay for a call, even. Possibly. Like, to be typing on while you're on a call. That sounds pretty good.

Right. I would say, if you're on a call and your microphone isn't, like, right by your keyboard, then, yeah. Might not be too bad. Like, I'm using a headset mic right now. Not one sitting on my desk. I'm at a standing desk. So, I'm standing above the keyboard, the microphone is right in front of my face [laughs] and if I don't put it any closer to the keyboard and just press the switch. I mean, clearly you're gonna hear that, but maybe it's not so loud that it, I- I don't know. What do you think?

Yeah. You know, it's, that's an interesting point. I think, in general, with regards to typing sounds while on calls. Because, if they're not too loud, it almost connotes, like, "Oh, I'm being productive." You know?

[laughs]

Like, "I'm- I'm taking notes-"

[laughs] Exactly.

And, "I'm engaged."

Right.

And then, if it's, like, super loud. It's "I'm derailing the call." [laughs]

Right, exactly [laughs]. Depending on who else is on the call for you, or whatever, it could also connote, you know, "I'm posting to Twitter." But, you know, but who knows. [laughs]

Yeah.

But yeah. I think, I think it's a really nice-feeling switch and I kinda think that if you're wavering between tactile and clicky, then it might be something to think about. You get a little bit of the best of both worlds and a little bit less of some of the downsides. Like, some clicky switches are really pretty firm. Pretty heavy. Which some people really like and other people don't. This is a clicky switch that is really not heavy.

Right.

You know, And not super loud. I guess if you already know that you like something that feels kinda like a Brown switch this would be an easy transition. I think.

That makes sense. I find it interesting that, often the switches that are friendliest to everyday use and are actually the most attractive in practice are not switches that make a statement. I always talk about the Kailh Thick Gold. Which is super duper clicky and I love the sound of that, but really, in the everyday, as we've mentioned, I type on a Silver, which is a very sedate type of key, right?

Right.

So, to me, it's just, it's interesting, because in tech, I think in general, we tend to go for the big, bold statements. You know, everything has to be cranked up to 11.

[laughs] Right.

But then when it comes to an object that you touch, and type on millions of characters, or more, I don't know. Then suddenly, that kind of brashness is less helpful. Like, you might want something that's a little bit more laid-back, that's a little less dramatic. Right? And I see that in the switches, in the sense that you read the spec or you even talk about the switch and it sounds a little bit boring, but then you use it and it's just a joy to use.

Right. As you were saying that, I was kind of thinking about cars. Like, if you have a family. Say, you have, you and your partner and a couple of kids. It's like, "Oh, do I really want a minivan? They're so boring." But you know what? [laughs] If you are packing in some kids and maybe their friends and maybe a couple of dogs and stuff. Your two-seater sports car might be really fun for some day trips, some nice outings, but for hauling the kids back and forth to school and to practice and to friends' houses and stuff, that minivan works... that's your workhorse [laughs].

Right. Yeah, no I get that. Although, I will say, if we're going minivan, like, to me, the minivan of keyswitches is the Brown.

Sure.

Like, that would be the workhorse. I don't know what car the MX White would be- the Box White would be [laughs].

Maybe it's a plug-in electric minivan [laughs].

[laughs] It's got utility, but maybe a little bit more.

Right. Right.

I like it.

[laughs]

Awesome.

Right. Or, maybe it's getting the 6-cylinder instead of the four [laughs].

[laughs]

So, I think it's kind of a fun switch, as you were saying, not as flashy and extreme and up-to-eleven as some of the really clicky or, you know, super tactile or super heavy switches. It's a good, everyday switch for heavy use, I think. If you still kinda want a little bit of a click.

That makes sense. Awesome.

Yeah.

Anything else we wanna say about the Box White?

I think that pretty much covers it.

Sounds good. Well thank you very much, then. I guess we'll talk again on the next one.

Sure. Thank you.

[laughs] Talk soon.

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Bye-bye.

Bye.