Tisha Talks Switches

Red

Linear
Duration: 26m 3s

I'm glad there's not a camera. I'm gonna put my face down close to the keyboard.

Switches mentioned in this episode

Kailh box red

45±15gf

Actuation force

1.8±0.3mm

Pre-travel

Cherry MX red

45±20gf

Actuation force

2.0±0.6mm

Pre-travel

Cherry MX silent red

45±15gf

Actuation force

2.0±0.6mm

Pre-travel

Transcripts

Duration: 26m 3s
Erez
00m 03s
Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. How's it going, Tisha?
Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. How's it going, Tisha?
Tisha
00m 09s
Hi. Uh, it's going well. How are you?
Hi. Uh, it's going well. How are you?
Erez
00m 10s
I'm good, I'm good.
I'm good, I'm good.
Tisha
00m 11s
Good.
Good.
Erez
00m 11s
I think, uh, we just, uh, heard before we starting recording, with us here today are also Tisha's neighbor's dogs, right?
I think, uh, we just, uh, heard before we starting recording, with us here today are also Tisha's neighbor's dogs, right?
Tisha
00m 15s
[laughs] Yeah. The weather today is very warm, and so the neighbor's small dogs are outside. And they, uh, can be noisy for long periods of time. [laughs]
[laughs] Yeah. The weather today is very warm, and so the neighbor's small dogs are outside. And they, uh, can be noisy for long periods of time. [laughs]
Erez
00m 22s
Yeah, so if you hear the dogs on today's podcast, hi neighbor dogs.
Yeah, so if you hear the dogs on today's podcast, hi neighbor dogs.
Tisha
00m 25s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
00m 26s
Uh, on today's not-a-podcast I should say, on today's episode really.
Uh, on today's not-a-podcast I should say, on today's episode really.
Tisha
00m 28s
[laughs] Right.
[laughs] Right.
Erez
00m 28s
So today we're gonna talk about reds, right?
So today we're gonna talk about reds, right?
Tisha
00m 31s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
00m 31s
Those are linear.
Those are linear.
Tisha
00m 32s
Yes, linear switches.
Yes, linear switches.
Erez
00m 33s
I think this is really our first linear episode, right? Because we've done Brown which is tactile. We've done Blue which is clicky.
I think this is really our first linear episode, right? Because we've done Brown which is tactile. We've done Blue which is clicky.
Tisha
00m 37s
Right.
Right.
Erez
00m 37s
So, now it's linear's turn.
So, now it's linear's turn.
Tisha
00m 38s
Right, yeah. Um, so linear switches just, it means that there, there's no click, there's no tactile bump. When you press the switch down, it's smooth and it feels the same until you hit bottom.
Right, yeah. Um, so linear switches just, it means that there, there's no click, there's no tactile bump. When you press the switch down, it's smooth and it feels the same until you hit bottom.
Erez
00m 47s
Right. That sounds like a more boring typing experience- [laughs]
Right. That sounds like a more boring typing experience- [laughs]
Tisha
00m 50s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
00m 50s
than, uh, than something, uh, certainly clicky but also tactile with that bump in the middle. Would you say linear switches are, I don't know, more monotonous to work with?
than, uh, than something, uh, certainly clicky but also tactile with that bump in the middle. Would you say linear switches are, I don't know, more monotonous to work with?
Tisha
00m 56s
Depending on who you are, sure. There are a lot of people who prefer to have the tactile and/or auditory feedback from a clicky or a tactile switch. But there also are a lot of people who prefer that smooth typing feeling. It's closer to, you know, if you're accustomed to typing on your standard, regular old like, you know, the keyboard that came with the computer that you bought or, to a certain degree, the keyboard on your laptop, stuff like that. They don't really have anything but just down and up.
Depending on who you are, sure. There are a lot of people who prefer to have the tactile and/or auditory feedback from a clicky or a tactile switch. But there also are a lot of people who prefer that smooth typing feeling. It's closer to, you know, if you're accustomed to typing on your standard, regular old like, you know, the keyboard that came with the computer that you bought or, to a certain degree, the keyboard on your laptop, stuff like that. They don't really have anything but just down and up.
Erez
01m 17s
Right, right. Although when people ask about laptop keyboards, I always say, especially with linear switches... Linear switches, it's like all they've got is just travel.
Right, right. Although when people ask about laptop keyboards, I always say, especially with linear switches... Linear switches, it's like all they've got is just travel.
Tisha
01m 24s
Right.
Right.
Erez
01m 24s
You hit the switch and it keeps going down, down, down, down, down, down until it bottoms out way more so than a laptop keyboard, right?
You hit the switch and it keeps going down, down, down, down, down, down until it bottoms out way more so than a laptop keyboard, right?
Tisha
01m 29s
Y- yeah, totally. So, that's, um, I guess that's why I said that's, it's not a super similar [laughs] experience but the similar part is that you've got just the up and down. Otherwise, they're not all that similar. Yeah, because the, the mechanical keyswitches are a lot deeper. You have a lot further to press before it stops.
Y- yeah, totally. So, that's, um, I guess that's why I said that's, it's not a super similar [laughs] experience but the similar part is that you've got just the up and down. Otherwise, they're not all that similar. Yeah, because the, the mechanical keyswitches are a lot deeper. You have a lot further to press before it stops.
Erez
01m 43s
Right, right. Okay, so I guess the other thing that maybe makes this episode different is that we're gonna talk about three different red switches-
Right, right. Okay, so I guess the other thing that maybe makes this episode different is that we're gonna talk about three different red switches-
Tisha
01m 50s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
01m 50s
but we really only offer one of those for the Moonlander and the ErgoDox EZ Glow and the Planck EZ Glow, right?
but we really only offer one of those for the Moonlander and the ErgoDox EZ Glow and the Planck EZ Glow, right?
Tisha
01m 55s
Right. Um, we have three red switches, one of which is RGB compatible, you know, meaning that it will let the light from the, uh, from the back lighting shine through. The other two are not.
Right. Um, we have three red switches, one of which is RGB compatible, you know, meaning that it will let the light from the, uh, from the back lighting shine through. The other two are not.
Erez
02m 02s
At least the way we carry them now, right? I mean we might, you know, by the time you're listening to this, maybe we do have them. But for now we don't have them for RGB boards.
At least the way we carry them now, right? I mean we might, you know, by the time you're listening to this, maybe we do have them. But for now we don't have them for RGB boards.
Tisha
02m 08s
Right. The non-RGB switches are made by Cherry. And Cherry makes RGB versions of each of these. We don't carry them. And, an- and, you know, I'll talk about this more when we get to it. Um, one of them is I think pretty easy to find and one of them is a little less easy to find in the RGB version.
Right. The non-RGB switches are made by Cherry. And Cherry makes RGB versions of each of these. We don't carry them. And, an- and, you know, I'll talk about this more when we get to it. Um, one of them is I think pretty easy to find and one of them is a little less easy to find in the RGB version.
Erez
02m 22s
Mm-hmm [affirmative], mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, let's talk about them then. So-
Mm-hmm [affirmative], mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, let's talk about them then. So-
Tisha
02m 23s
Okay, sure.
Okay, sure.
Erez
02m 24s
should we start with, with the granddaddy, with the Cherry MX Red?
should we start with, with the granddaddy, with the Cherry MX Red?
Tisha
02m 26s
Sure, yeah. And this, this is one that m-, probably a lot of people have heard of.
Sure, yeah. And this, this is one that m-, probably a lot of people have heard of.
Erez
02m 29s
Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Tisha
02m 29s
So far we've talked about, uh, Cherry MX Brown and Cherry MX Blue, so this is made by the same manufacturer. It's been around a long time. It is, um, I think... Well, uh, maybe this is just an assumption. [laughs] But I think when people think of, your default linear switch, probably a lot of people think of Cherry MX Red.
So far we've talked about, uh, Cherry MX Brown and Cherry MX Blue, so this is made by the same manufacturer. It's been around a long time. It is, um, I think... Well, uh, maybe this is just an assumption. [laughs] But I think when people think of, your default linear switch, probably a lot of people think of Cherry MX Red.
Erez
02m 46s
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. How do... You mean people who have tried MX Red before, or just the notion of a linear switch?
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. How do... You mean people who have tried MX Red before, or just the notion of a linear switch?
Tisha
02m 51s
I think maybe just the notion of a linear switch. You mentioned that MX Red maybe is the granddaddy of the linear switches. And Cherry is kind of the granddaddy of the mechanical, keyswitch manufacturing world [laughs] I guess, you know. They're the big name, and this is their, this is their well-known linear switch.
I think maybe just the notion of a linear switch. You mentioned that MX Red maybe is the granddaddy of the linear switches. And Cherry is kind of the granddaddy of the mechanical, keyswitch manufacturing world [laughs] I guess, you know. They're the big name, and this is their, this is their well-known linear switch.
Erez
03m 03s
Right. So then would you say, generally speaking, is this the, the "when in doubt" linear switch? Meaning like let's say I know I want linear, MX Red is kind of a safe bet if it's available for my keyboard?
Right. So then would you say, generally speaking, is this the, the "when in doubt" linear switch? Meaning like let's say I know I want linear, MX Red is kind of a safe bet if it's available for my keyboard?
Tisha
03m 11s
Right. Yeah, I would say so. It's well known and popular and, [laughs] I guess for lack of a better, um, way to say it, there's nothing like weird or unusual about it. There's not r-, there aren't really any gotchas about it.
Right. Yeah, I would say so. It's well known and popular and, [laughs] I guess for lack of a better, um, way to say it, there's nothing like weird or unusual about it. There's not r-, there aren't really any gotchas about it.
Erez
03m 22s
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I don't know, I don't know. Like I'm actually, I think on linear switches right now, I'm typing on the Kailh Silver.
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I don't know, I don't know. Like I'm actually, I think on linear switches right now, I'm typing on the Kailh Silver.
Tisha
03m 25s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
03m 25s
But the way we talk about these makes them sound so boring to me. Like, "Oh, there's nothing unusual about the MX Red. It-
But the way we talk about these makes them sound so boring to me. Like, "Oh, there's nothing unusual about the MX Red. It-
Tisha
03m 29s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
03m 29s
it's just it goes down all the way and then it goes back up. And it's-
it's just it goes down all the way and then it goes back up. And it's-
Tisha
03m 31s
Right.
Right.
Erez
03m 31s
smooth." Like, uh, yeah, I gue-, I guess not all switches have to be exciting, right? I mean- [laughs]
smooth." Like, uh, yeah, I gue-, I guess not all switches have to be exciting, right? I mean- [laughs]
Tisha
03m 35s
[laughs] Yeah, that's true.
[laughs] Yeah, that's true.
Erez
03m 36s
It's kind of a workhorse.
It's kind of a workhorse.
Tisha
03m 37s
It is. It's not, I guess it's not exciting but it is, um, but a lot of people find them just very, you know, comfortable, um, easy to use for long periods of time. You're sitting there for eight or 10 hours just typing away intensively, um, these switches tend to be, uh, you know, pretty easy on your fingers. And they can be a little easier on your ears too.
It is. It's not, I guess it's not exciting but it is, um, but a lot of people find them just very, you know, comfortable, um, easy to use for long periods of time. You're sitting there for eight or 10 hours just typing away intensively, um, these switches tend to be, uh, you know, pretty easy on your fingers. And they can be a little easier on your ears too.
Erez
03m 54s
Okay. That's actually an interesting segue for the next one, right? Easy on your ears, which is the Silent Red.
Okay. That's actually an interesting segue for the next one, right? Easy on your ears, which is the Silent Red.
Tisha
03m 59s
Right. I'll back up just a little bit, and both the Cherry MX Red and the Cherry MX Silent Red are moderately lightweight. Like that, [laughs] that wishy-washy light/medium weight. So, they're easy to type on. They don't offer a lot of resistance. They don't really push back at you a lot. So, most people are going to find that, that they're easy to type on for long periods of time. They're not fatiguing, but they're not so light that it's like typing on nothing.
Right. I'll back up just a little bit, and both the Cherry MX Red and the Cherry MX Silent Red are moderately lightweight. Like that, [laughs] that wishy-washy light/medium weight. So, they're easy to type on. They don't offer a lot of resistance. They don't really push back at you a lot. So, most people are going to find that, that they're easy to type on for long periods of time. They're not fatiguing, but they're not so light that it's like typing on nothing.
Erez
04m 18s
My test and what I always ask about these lighter switches, can I or can like, would you say a, an average person, if there is such a thing, rest their fingers on the board while thinking?
My test and what I always ask about these lighter switches, can I or can like, would you say a, an average person, if there is such a thing, rest their fingers on the board while thinking?
Tisha
04m 26s
Oh, right.
Oh, right.
Erez
04m 26s
Or will I get characters on the screen? What do you think?
Or will I get characters on the screen? What do you think?
Tisha
04m 27s
Right. Um, I would say with the red switches, most people will not get characters on their screen if they rest their fingers on the keys. They're not so light or so easy to, to actuate that it's easy to get accidental key presses. You can put your fingers on them. You can probably wiggle your fingers around a little bit on the keys without, without anything happening.
Right. Um, I would say with the red switches, most people will not get characters on their screen if they rest their fingers on the keys. They're not so light or so easy to, to actuate that it's easy to get accidental key presses. You can put your fingers on them. You can probably wiggle your fingers around a little bit on the keys without, without anything happening.
Erez
04m 41s
Cool. Okay. So then, so those, those are the reds. And then we kind of touched on the silents as well.
Cool. Okay. So then, so those, those are the reds. And then we kind of touched on the silents as well.
Tisha
04m 46s
Right. So, linear switches in general, because there's no click and because there's no tactile bump, uh, tend to be a bit quieter. They're, if you think of switches in three big families, linear, tactile and clicky, the linear is the, tends to be the quietest family.
Right. So, linear switches in general, because there's no click and because there's no tactile bump, uh, tend to be a bit quieter. They're, if you think of switches in three big families, linear, tactile and clicky, the linear is the, tends to be the quietest family.
Erez
04m 58s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
04m 58s
Taking that I guess a step further, you've got silenced switches like the Cherry MX Silent Red which has, built in stuff [laughs] in the switch to make it even quieter. It's really quiet.
Taking that I guess a step further, you've got silenced switches like the Cherry MX Silent Red which has, built in stuff [laughs] in the switch to make it even quieter. It's really quiet.
Erez
05m 08s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
05m 08s
I compare it to I think a, um, just a normal laptop keyboard. It's probably just a touch louder than that, but not a lot. Compared to your, standard, you know, your $15 from Best Buy office keyboard, [laughs] um, it is probably at least as quiet as that.
I compare it to I think a, um, just a normal laptop keyboard. It's probably just a touch louder than that, but not a lot. Compared to your, standard, you know, your $15 from Best Buy office keyboard, [laughs] um, it is probably at least as quiet as that.
Erez
05m 25s
Right. Though in, in a previous episode we did kind of touch on the notion of when you're typing it's not just a switch you're really hearing, right? There's a lot of plastic on plastic and bottoming out and stuff like that, right?
Right. Though in, in a previous episode we did kind of touch on the notion of when you're typing it's not just a switch you're really hearing, right? There's a lot of plastic on plastic and bottoming out and stuff like that, right?
Tisha
05m 35s
True, yeah.
True, yeah.
Erez
05m 36s
So, would you say that Silent Red, by itself, does it make a significant difference? Like if, if, you know, we have 100% of the audio output of, you know, energetic typing, and then you take out the, the key switch sound let's say, because your key switch is perfectly silent-
So, would you say that Silent Red, by itself, does it make a significant difference? Like if, if, you know, we have 100% of the audio output of, you know, energetic typing, and then you take out the, the key switch sound let's say, because your key switch is perfectly silent-
Tisha
05m 47s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
05m 48s
how much of that is still left? Like, uh, am I truly quiet enough for a call now, for example? Or would I need to type softly in a call?
how much of that is still left? Like, uh, am I truly quiet enough for a call now, for example? Or would I need to type softly in a call?
Tisha
05m 55s
Right. I mean of course it's going to vary somewhat, with the individual. But the nature of, uh... the sound from bottoming out is one of the things specifically mitigated [laughs] in silenced switches like the Cherry MX Silent Red.
Right. I mean of course it's going to vary somewhat, with the individual. But the nature of, uh... the sound from bottoming out is one of the things specifically mitigated [laughs] in silenced switches like the Cherry MX Silent Red.
Erez
06m 07s
Mmm.
Mmm.
Tisha
06m 07s
So, you get much, much less, I, you know, I would say as, as an aggressive typist myself, you get quite a lot less thwock, thwock, thwock from bottoming out.
So, you get much, much less, I, you know, I would say as, as an aggressive typist myself, you get quite a lot less thwock, thwock, thwock from bottoming out.
Erez
06m 14s
Mmm.
Mmm.
Tisha
06m 14s
Um, you get, I'm trying to come up with an appropriate onomatopoeia. [laughs]
Um, you get, I'm trying to come up with an appropriate onomatopoeia. [laughs]
Erez
06m 18s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Tisha
06m 19s
And it, I'm, i-, uh, I'm not getting there. But it's not thwocky, it's more tappy but not as high-pitched as you might think of tap sounding.
And it, I'm, i-, uh, I'm not getting there. But it's not thwocky, it's more tappy but not as high-pitched as you might think of tap sounding.
Erez
06m 30s
For some reason, raindrops come to mind. I'm not talking about a full-on summer storm but like raindrops hitting a car roof. [laughs] Is that weird?
For some reason, raindrops come to mind. I'm not talking about a full-on summer storm but like raindrops hitting a car roof. [laughs] Is that weird?
Tisha
06m 36s
[laughs] Um, I know what you mean. Right, like soft rain. Not, [laughs] not an old, uh, very metal-rich car. [laughs] But yeah.
[laughs] Um, I know what you mean. Right, like soft rain. Not, [laughs] not an old, uh, very metal-rich car. [laughs] But yeah.
Erez
06m 45s
One of the plastic things we're driving around these days.
One of the plastic things we're driving around these days.
Tisha
06m 46s
Ri- [laughs] right, exactly.
Ri- [laughs] right, exactly.
Erez
06m 48s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
06m 48s
Yeah, the quality of the sound is also, i- is also quite different as well as the, uh, amount of sound, the volume.
Yeah, the quality of the sound is also, i- is also quite different as well as the, uh, amount of sound, the volume.
Erez
06m 54s
So, it feels different to bottom out. So, like you're saying it, it mitigates the noise but, obviously, to mitigate the noise you got to mitigate the actual bottoming out, right? So, it's like it's cushioned?
So, it feels different to bottom out. So, like you're saying it, it mitigates the noise but, obviously, to mitigate the noise you got to mitigate the actual bottoming out, right? So, it's like it's cushioned?
Tisha
07m 00s
Right, yeah. It does feel, um, it does feel cushioned. The impact is, is softer feeling when you bottom out. You don't really feel that plastic-on-plastic impact. You feel, more like you're hitting something a bit softer. It's not squishy like you might think of, um, if you think of a really awful, cheap [laughs] keyboard and you get that kinda squishy feeling when you press the keys all the way down. It's not squishy like that. It's just not, the impact is just not so sharp feeling.
Right, yeah. It does feel, um, it does feel cushioned. The impact is, is softer feeling when you bottom out. You don't really feel that plastic-on-plastic impact. You feel, more like you're hitting something a bit softer. It's not squishy like you might think of, um, if you think of a really awful, cheap [laughs] keyboard and you get that kinda squishy feeling when you press the keys all the way down. It's not squishy like that. It's just not, the impact is just not so sharp feeling.
Erez
07m 21s
Right. Well, one thing I do with other switches when I want to soften the impact a little bit is I tend to install o-rings on my keycaps. And then, and then when I press it down, I can't, I don't really bottom out 'cause I bottom out on the o-ring really, not the actual switch. Would you say for Silent Reds, would, would o-rings be redundant because the switch already does that kind of dampening?
Right. Well, one thing I do with other switches when I want to soften the impact a little bit is I tend to install o-rings on my keycaps. And then, and then when I press it down, I can't, I don't really bottom out 'cause I bottom out on the o-ring really, not the actual switch. Would you say for Silent Reds, would, would o-rings be redundant because the switch already does that kind of dampening?
Tisha
07m 37s
Yeah, I think that they would in large part be redundant. I don't know how much more dampening you're going to get-
Yeah, I think that they would in large part be redundant. I don't know how much more dampening you're going to get-
Erez
07m 41s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
07m 41s
by adding o-rings. Maybe a tiny bit. So, if you're super sensitive to sound, they might help a tiny bit. What they will do is shorten the, the travel distance. So, if that's something you're looking for, then, um, then you may still like the feeling of, of o-rings with the Silent Reds because it'll be quiet and you'll have less key travel. There'll be less distance before you bottom out.
by adding o-rings. Maybe a tiny bit. So, if you're super sensitive to sound, they might help a tiny bit. What they will do is shorten the, the travel distance. So, if that's something you're looking for, then, um, then you may still like the feeling of, of o-rings with the Silent Reds because it'll be quiet and you'll have less key travel. There'll be less distance before you bottom out.
Erez
07m 58s
That's actually really interesting what you said about the travel because... I- if we're going back to the laptop question, so if I wanted to emulate a laptop to, to an extent-
That's actually really interesting what you said about the travel because... I- if we're going back to the laptop question, so if I wanted to emulate a laptop to, to an extent-
Tisha
08m 04s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
08m 05s
then really I would just take a linear switch, maybe even a Silver or a Box Red or, not even specifically, uh, the Silent Red, and I can even double up the o-rings-
then really I would just take a linear switch, maybe even a Silver or a Box Red or, not even specifically, uh, the Silent Red, and I can even double up the o-rings-
Tisha
08m 12s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
08m 12s
and really narrow down the range of movement? Like, would that be a reasonable way to try to emulate a laptop keyboard with a mechanical one?
and really narrow down the range of movement? Like, would that be a reasonable way to try to emulate a laptop keyboard with a mechanical one?
Tisha
08m 17s
Yeah. I mean it's, well (A), it's probably about the only way. [laughs]
Yeah. I mean it's, well (A), it's probably about the only way. [laughs]
Erez
08m 20s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
08m 20s
But yeah, that's probably at least in my experience, I think that's about the closest that you're going to get to the feeling of a laptop keyboard, or the, the chiclet style like the Apple Magic type-
But yeah, that's probably at least in my experience, I think that's about the closest that you're going to get to the feeling of a laptop keyboard, or the, the chiclet style like the Apple Magic type-
Erez
08m 27s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
08m 28s
keyboard with the very shallow keys, is, uh, a linear switch plus one or two, and I think I've even gotten away with three o-rings.
keyboard with the very shallow keys, is, uh, a linear switch plus one or two, and I think I've even gotten away with three o-rings.
Erez
08m 34s
Wow.
Wow.
Tisha
08m 35s
[laughs] Um, i- it, that will kind of depend on your, keycaps. In some cases it's doable so then you have noticeably less travel before you bottom out, and your keyboard will feel shallower.
[laughs] Um, i- it, that will kind of depend on your, keycaps. In some cases it's doable so then you have noticeably less travel before you bottom out, and your keyboard will feel shallower.
Erez
08m 43s
And will be quieter too, right?
And will be quieter too, right?
Tisha
08m 44s
Yes, it will be quieter.
Yes, it will be quieter.
Erez
08m 45s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
08m 45s
S-, you know, somewhat. Depends on the switch. Now, if you add o-rings to something like a Cherry MX Blue which is clicky, eh, it's probably not gonna be a lot quieter. [laughs]
S-, you know, somewhat. Depends on the switch. Now, if you add o-rings to something like a Cherry MX Blue which is clicky, eh, it's probably not gonna be a lot quieter. [laughs]
Erez
08m 51s
[laughs] Right. Right, for sure. Okay. So then was that the Silent Red? Do we want to say anything else about that switch?
[laughs] Right. Right, for sure. Okay. So then was that the Silent Red? Do we want to say anything else about that switch?
Tisha
08m 57s
I think, you know, if you like the, the idea of a, a fairly lightweight linear switch, something that's really easy on your fingers but not so easy that you accidentally shoot off letters [laughs] when you don't mean to, um, and you want something really quiet, then the Cherry MX Silent Red is a good, a good choice I think.
I think, you know, if you like the, the idea of a, a fairly lightweight linear switch, something that's really easy on your fingers but not so easy that you accidentally shoot off letters [laughs] when you don't mean to, um, and you want something really quiet, then the Cherry MX Silent Red is a good, a good choice I think.
Erez
09m 12s
Cool.
Cool.
Tisha
09m 13s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
09m 13s
I guess, I guess one thing I will, I will say again here is that maybe by the time you're listening to this we already have MX Red and Silent Red also for the Moonlander. Uh, I'm definitely working on it. But yeah, for now, we don't have them yet. I just, I did, we did want to include them in this episode because they're good switches. So-
I guess, I guess one thing I will, I will say again here is that maybe by the time you're listening to this we already have MX Red and Silent Red also for the Moonlander. Uh, I'm definitely working on it. But yeah, for now, we don't have them yet. I just, I did, we did want to include them in this episode because they're good switches. So-
Tisha
09m 25s
Right.
Right.
Erez
09m 25s
we're definitely working on it.
we're definitely working on it.
Tisha
09m 26s
Yeah. And if you're, uh, if you get an ErgoDox EZ Original or Shine with the underboard LEDs or the Planck EZ, um, standard, you can get any of those with the Cherry MX Red or Silent Red switches.
Yeah. And if you're, uh, if you get an ErgoDox EZ Original or Shine with the underboard LEDs or the Planck EZ, um, standard, you can get any of those with the Cherry MX Red or Silent Red switches.
Erez
09m 35s
Cool. So, and, and finally we get to the last red switch which is one that we do carry RGB versions of.
Cool. So, and, and finally we get to the last red switch which is one that we do carry RGB versions of.
Tisha
09m 41s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
09m 41s
That would be the Kailh Box Red, right?
That would be the Kailh Box Red, right?
Tisha
09m 43s
Right.
Right.
Erez
09m 43s
What's that like?
What's that like?
Tisha
09m 44s
Well, it's really similar to Cherry MX Red. If you listened to the episode about brown switches, kind of in the way that Kailh Box Brown is similar to Cherry MX Brown, so Kailh Box Red is similar to Cherry MX Red. It has the same force rating and yeah, they're very, very similar. I would say that the Kailh Box Red may feel a little bit smoother than the Cherry MX Red. Some people find Cherry switches to have, I don't know, some people describe it as a little scratchy or a little sandy or rough feeling.
Well, it's really similar to Cherry MX Red. If you listened to the episode about brown switches, kind of in the way that Kailh Box Brown is similar to Cherry MX Brown, so Kailh Box Red is similar to Cherry MX Red. It has the same force rating and yeah, they're very, very similar. I would say that the Kailh Box Red may feel a little bit smoother than the Cherry MX Red. Some people find Cherry switches to have, I don't know, some people describe it as a little scratchy or a little sandy or rough feeling.
Erez
10m 10s
For the Cherry?
For the Cherry?
Tisha
10m 11s
Cherry switches, yeah.
Cherry switches, yeah.
Erez
10m 11s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
10m 11s
Some people find that they kind of have this, a little, yeah, I don't know, I guess a little roughness. The Kailh Box switches tend not to have that feeling, tend to be smoother feeling. And to me, and th-, and this is a very subtle difference, [laughs] I think that the Kailh Box Red might feel just the tiniest bit springier than Cherry MX Red, that like the, the recoil, the up, I don't know, what you wanna, the upstroke I guess, um, maybe be, you know, just like a tiny bit firmer.
Some people find that they kind of have this, a little, yeah, I don't know, I guess a little roughness. The Kailh Box switches tend not to have that feeling, tend to be smoother feeling. And to me, and th-, and this is a very subtle difference, [laughs] I think that the Kailh Box Red might feel just the tiniest bit springier than Cherry MX Red, that like the, the recoil, the up, I don't know, what you wanna, the upstroke I guess, um, maybe be, you know, just like a tiny bit firmer.
Erez
10m 35s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
10m 36s
This is, uh, this is a really, really subtle [laughs] difference. But if we're looking for differences, yeah, I sort of notice that. [laughs]
This is, uh, this is a really, really subtle [laughs] difference. But if we're looking for differences, yeah, I sort of notice that. [laughs]
Erez
10m 42s
Cool. I guess, I guess another big difference with the Box switches in general but also the Box Reds in particular is the stem and how the switch mates with the keycap because of the stem, right?
Cool. I guess, I guess another big difference with the Box switches in general but also the Box Reds in particular is the stem and how the switch mates with the keycap because of the stem, right?
Tisha
10m 52s
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Yeah, the, the Box switches are aptly named because there's a little box around the little cross or X which is the part that, uh, interfaces with the keycap. What that means, what that should mean in practice [laughs] is that it gives the switch a little bit more sort of dust and, um, splash protection. So the Box switches have a little more, I guess protection is the right word-
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Yeah, the, the Box switches are aptly named because there's a little box around the little cross or X which is the part that, uh, interfaces with the keycap. What that means, what that should mean in practice [laughs] is that it gives the switch a little bit more sort of dust and, um, splash protection. So the Box switches have a little more, I guess protection is the right word-
Erez
11m 13s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
11m 13s
um, from dust, debris and liquids. I mean you can't, you can't expect to spill your coffee on your keyboard and have everything be okay just because you have Box switches. [laughs]
um, from dust, debris and liquids. I mean you can't, you can't expect to spill your coffee on your keyboard and have everything be okay just because you have Box switches. [laughs]
Erez
11m 20s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
11m 20s
But, um, you know, a couple of drops here and there are less likely to cause problems with the board or the switches if you have Box switches than if you have standard ones.
But, um, you know, a couple of drops here and there are less likely to cause problems with the board or the switches if you have Box switches than if you have standard ones.
Erez
11m 26s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
11m 27s
However, as a side effect the fit with some types of keycaps is tighter, uh-
However, as a side effect the fit with some types of keycaps is tighter, uh-
Erez
11m 32s
Hmm.
Hmm.
Tisha
11m 32s
with the box switches. So this is the reason we don't offer the Kailh Box switches with non-RGB keyboards.
with the box switches. So this is the reason we don't offer the Kailh Box switches with non-RGB keyboards.
Erez
11m 37s
Cause they got different keycaps?
Cause they got different keycaps?
Tisha
11m 38s
Right.
Right.
Erez
11m 38s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
11m 39s
Our non-backlit keycaps have a tight enough fit with the Box switches that sometimes the keycap stems crack or break.
Our non-backlit keycaps have a tight enough fit with the Box switches that sometimes the keycap stems crack or break.
Erez
11m 45s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
11m 46s
So just to be on the safe side, you know, so that we're not sending you something that has, that we know, [laughs] um, has a certain likelihood of breaking , we only offer the Kailh Box switches with backlit keyboards which means Moonlander, ErgoDox EZ Glow and Planck EZ Glow. Those keycaps which are m- made by a different manufacturer, uh, the fit seems just fine.
So just to be on the safe side, you know, so that we're not sending you something that has, that we know, [laughs] um, has a certain likelihood of breaking , we only offer the Kailh Box switches with backlit keyboards which means Moonlander, ErgoDox EZ Glow and Planck EZ Glow. Those keycaps which are m- made by a different manufacturer, uh, the fit seems just fine.
Erez
12m 00s
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Cool. All right. So then, what would you say subjectively if I am on the fence, like, "I'm not sure. Do I, do I want to wait for the MX Reds or Silent Reds to become available for the Glow? Or do I want to just go for the Box Reds or, or go, you know, or lose the lighting and just go for something that has the Silent Red or MX Red?" What, what would you do there?
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Cool. All right. So then, what would you say subjectively if I am on the fence, like, "I'm not sure. Do I, do I want to wait for the MX Reds or Silent Reds to become available for the Glow? Or do I want to just go for the Box Reds or, or go, you know, or lose the lighting and just go for something that has the Silent Red or MX Red?" What, what would you do there?
Tisha
12m 19s
Uh, boy. [laughs] It depends on, uh, on what's most important to you I think. Like if you, um, if you have to take notes in a Zoom meeting, s- stuff like that, if you have to be typing while people are talking, you may want to think about the Silent Reds because then you don't have to worry about stabbing at the mute button and stuff. Um, people will probably not hear, uh, much typing noise if you're using the Silent Red switch. Or, you know, or if you're in a shared workspace and your office mate or house mate, [laughs] requires a quiet working environment, or if you, you know, require a quiet working environment for whatever reason, just preference or the type of work you do, then the Silent Red is a good choice.
Uh, boy. [laughs] It depends on, uh, on what's most important to you I think. Like if you, um, if you have to take notes in a Zoom meeting, s- stuff like that, if you have to be typing while people are talking, you may want to think about the Silent Reds because then you don't have to worry about stabbing at the mute button and stuff. Um, people will probably not hear, uh, much typing noise if you're using the Silent Red switch. Or, you know, or if you're in a shared workspace and your office mate or house mate, [laughs] requires a quiet working environment, or if you, you know, require a quiet working environment for whatever reason, just preference or the type of work you do, then the Silent Red is a good choice.
Erez
12m 51s
You were talking about this and it kinda made me want to try something. So, I got, I got a linear switch right here. I have the, uh, the Kailh Silver.
You were talking about this and it kinda made me want to try something. So, I got, I got a linear switch right here. I have the, uh, the Kailh Silver.
Tisha
12m 56s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
12m 56s
So, I'm just gonna do a bunch of typing right here on the recording, uh-
So, I'm just gonna do a bunch of typing right here on the recording, uh-
Tisha
12m 58s
Okay.
Okay.
Erez
13m 00s
and we can decide if it's loud or if it's kind of bearable or like how audible is this on your side?
and we can decide if it's loud or if it's kind of bearable or like how audible is this on your side?
Tisha
13m 05s
It's audible. I can hear that there's typing. But I wouldn't call it, I wouldn't call it loud.
It's audible. I can hear that there's typing. But I wouldn't call it, I wouldn't call it loud.
Erez
13m 08s
Hmm.
Hmm.
Tisha
13m 08s
Like I, it's not interfering with me understanding you.
Like I, it's not interfering with me understanding you.
Erez
13m 11s
Right. Uh-
Right. Uh-
Tisha
13m 11s
Now, I have a keyboard with Silent Reds here if we want to do a comparison.
Now, I have a keyboard with Silent Reds here if we want to do a comparison.
Erez
13m 13s
Oh yeah, let's, let- let's do that just for fun. Again, this is, the, the reason why we wanted to do these episodes rather than a sound test is that the sound tests are so unscientific, right? It depends what room you're in and the mic and everything. But yeah, if you got a Silent Red, let's, let's hear that.
Oh yeah, let's, let- let's do that just for fun. Again, this is, the, the reason why we wanted to do these episodes rather than a sound test is that the sound tests are so unscientific, right? It depends what room you're in and the mic and everything. But yeah, if you got a Silent Red, let's, let's hear that.
Tisha
13m 22s
Sure.
Sure.
Erez
13m 22s
If you want to type something, yeah.
If you want to type something, yeah.
Tisha
13m 22s
Right. Sure. I mean and obviously this is also very unscientific. We're not in the same room. We're not even in the same country. [laughs]
Right. Sure. I mean and obviously this is also very unscientific. We're not in the same room. We're not even in the same country. [laughs]
Erez
13m 27s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
13m 28s
And, um, you know, uh-
And, um, you know, uh-
Erez
13m 29s
There's, there's like American side on, sound on your side and-
There's, there's like American side on, sound on your side and-
Tisha
13m 30s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
13m 30s
mine is like totally Canadian sound.
mine is like totally Canadian sound.
Tisha
13m 31s
Exactly, right. Like, um, when I type, I'm not gonna put any U's in color and favorite.
Exactly, right. Like, um, when I type, I'm not gonna put any U's in color and favorite.
Erez
13m 34s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Tisha
13m 34s
[laughs] And, um, but, you know, I'm sure that our typing styles are different, all that kind of stuff. Um, but anyway I'm just gonna, I am typing away with, um, the Silent Reds.
[laughs] And, um, but, you know, I'm sure that our typing styles are different, all that kind of stuff. Um, but anyway I'm just gonna, I am typing away with, um, the Silent Reds.
Erez
13m 45s
Wow, that is actually super quiet.
Wow, that is actually super quiet.
Tisha
13m 46s
Right. And, uh, I'm not-
Right. And, uh, I'm not-
Erez
13m 47s
Oh, but, but you're not using... I'm using like a, a desk mic. I'm using a Blue Yeti so it's kind of hovering over my keyboard whereas you are using, um, a headset one, right?
Oh, but, but you're not using... I'm using like a, a desk mic. I'm using a Blue Yeti so it's kind of hovering over my keyboard whereas you are using, um, a headset one, right?
Tisha
13m 53s
Right. So, I'm gonna, [laughs] this is, I'm glad there's not a camera. I'm gonna put my face down close to the keyboard-
Right. So, I'm gonna, [laughs] this is, I'm glad there's not a camera. I'm gonna put my face down close to the keyboard-
Erez
13m 58s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Tisha
13m 58s
and type.
and type.
Erez
13m 58s
Which is not a realistic scenario to be fair. I mean that's not something that's gonna happen in a-
Which is not a realistic scenario to be fair. I mean that's not something that's gonna happen in a-
Tisha
14m 00s
Exactly. But like if you, if you're doing some recording right in front of where your keyboard is, it may be, it may be fairly close.
Exactly. But like if you, if you're doing some recording right in front of where your keyboard is, it may be, it may be fairly close.
Erez
14m 06s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tisha
14m 06s
So, um, let's take the visual out of this, of me hunched over with my face right by my keyboard-
So, um, let's take the visual out of this, of me hunched over with my face right by my keyboard-
Erez
14m 11s
Okay.
Okay.
Tisha
14m 11s
and imagine a, a microphone close by. Here we go, I would say I'm, I would say the mic is maybe an inch and a half away.
and imagine a, a microphone close by. Here we go, I would say I'm, I would say the mic is maybe an inch and a half away.
Erez
14m 20s
Wow, that's quiet. That is super quiet. Like there's no way that would bug me on a call even, even like that, yeah. So, that's, that's Silent Reds.
Wow, that's quiet. That is super quiet. Like there's no way that would bug me on a call even, even like that, yeah. So, that's, that's Silent Reds.
Tisha
14m 26s
Right, yeah.
Right, yeah.
Erez
14m 27s
Yeah, so it really does make a difference. I think, again, it's, it's hard to tell because I was typing on my side. Uh, we'll see what, what the recording comes out as. But, uh, to me it sounded significantly quieter than the Kailh Silver I was typing on.
Yeah, so it really does make a difference. I think, again, it's, it's hard to tell because I was typing on my side. Uh, we'll see what, what the recording comes out as. But, uh, to me it sounded significantly quieter than the Kailh Silver I was typing on.
Tisha
14m 35s
Okay. Um, cool. That was a good, that was a good little experiment to do. [laughs]
Okay. Um, cool. That was a good, that was a good little experiment to do. [laughs]
Erez
14m 38s
Cool. So then I guess, I guess to answer my own question from before, I guess what I would do if I wanted a Silent Red board right now, I would probably get a backlit one with different switches, like maybe I would get even a board with clicky switches just for variety. And then I would get a set of Silent Reds to put into my board, and that way I, I have the best of both worlds.
Cool. So then I guess, I guess to answer my own question from before, I guess what I would do if I wanted a Silent Red board right now, I would probably get a backlit one with different switches, like maybe I would get even a board with clicky switches just for variety. And then I would get a set of Silent Reds to put into my board, and that way I, I have the best of both worlds.
Tisha
14m 54s
Mm-hmm [affirmative], sure. RGB compatible Cherry MX Silent Reds are... th- they do make them. They're not always the easiest things to find. But, but they exist. [laughs] Um, and there are other silenced, there are both, you know, silenced tactile and linear switches. Um, but there are other types of silenced linear switches like, um, Kailh makes one, the Kailh Box Si-, I don't, I can't remember right off the top of my head if they're called Silent Red or Silent Pink. And I haven't used those myself so I can't really speak to what they're like. But I imagine that they are, you know, that they're similar-
Mm-hmm [affirmative], sure. RGB compatible Cherry MX Silent Reds are... th- they do make them. They're not always the easiest things to find. But, but they exist. [laughs] Um, and there are other silenced, there are both, you know, silenced tactile and linear switches. Um, but there are other types of silenced linear switches like, um, Kailh makes one, the Kailh Box Si-, I don't, I can't remember right off the top of my head if they're called Silent Red or Silent Pink. And I haven't used those myself so I can't really speak to what they're like. But I imagine that they are, you know, that they're similar-
Erez
15m 20s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
15m 20s
to the Cherry MX Silent Red, right? So, Kailh makes one, um, Zeal PC makes some silenced linear switches. The Healios and one or two other types. [laughs] So there are, there are, um, options available out there if you're interested.
to the Cherry MX Silent Red, right? So, Kailh makes one, um, Zeal PC makes some silenced linear switches. The Healios and one or two other types. [laughs] So there are, there are, um, options available out there if you're interested.
Erez
15m 31s
Cool. All right, yeah, this was a really fun one.
Cool. All right, yeah, this was a really fun one.
Tisha
15m 34s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
15m 34s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Tisha
15m 34s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
15m 35s
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Tisha
15m 35s
All right, sure. Thank you.
All right, sure. Thank you.
Erez
15m 36s
See you on the next one.
See you on the next one.
Tisha
15m 37s
Yep.
Yep.
Erez
15m 37s
Bye.
Bye.
Tisha
15m 37s
Bye-bye
Bye-bye