Tisha Talks Switches

Gold

Clicky
Duration: 21m 7s

It could be almost like a white noise generator.

Switches mentioned in this episode

Kailh gold

60±10gf

Actuation force

1.4±0.3mm

Pre-travel

Kailh bronze

50±10gf

Actuation force

1.1±0.4mm

Pre-travel

Transcripts

Duration: 21m 7s
Erez
00m 03s
Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. How's it going, Tisha?
Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. How's it going, Tisha?
Tisha
00m 09s
Hi, it's going pretty well. How are you?
Hi, it's going pretty well. How are you?
Erez
00m 10s
I'm good. I'm good. It's, it's interesting. You know, we're recording this early September, and here in Southern Ontario, the moment you flip to September, it feels like, okay, Fall is here.
I'm good. I'm good. It's, it's interesting. You know, we're recording this early September, and here in Southern Ontario, the moment you flip to September, it feels like, okay, Fall is here.
Tisha
00m 16s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
00m 17s
The seasons are really on the clock, so it's been a cooler day here, but it's nice.
The seasons are really on the clock, so it's been a cooler day here, but it's nice.
Tisha
00m 19s
Right. Good. Here in Chicago, it was still blazing hot at the very beginning of September as it kind of has been in the late summer. But the last couple of days have been finally very pleasant. I would still prefer it cooler- [laughs]
Right. Good. Here in Chicago, it was still blazing hot at the very beginning of September as it kind of has been in the late summer. But the last couple of days have been finally very pleasant. I would still prefer it cooler- [laughs]
Erez
00m 29s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Tisha
00m 29s
But a 20 degree Fahrenheit [laughs] drop in temperature was still very welcome. So yeah, it's a nice day today.
But a 20 degree Fahrenheit [laughs] drop in temperature was still very welcome. So yeah, it's a nice day today.
Erez
00m 34s
That's awesome. So Gold.
That's awesome. So Gold.
Tisha
00m 35s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
00m 36s
Which for us also includes Thick Gold, now known as Bronze. [laughs]
Which for us also includes Thick Gold, now known as Bronze. [laughs]
Tisha
00m 39s
Right. Which, yeah, the, [laughs] these are confusing names and at least, to me, the name change that should have made things less confusing actually just kinda makes things more confusing, but maybe that's just me. [laughs]
Right. Which, yeah, the, [laughs] these are confusing names and at least, to me, the name change that should have made things less confusing actually just kinda makes things more confusing, but maybe that's just me. [laughs]
Erez
00m 50s
I'm with you. I mean, to me, Thick Gold is just a brilliant name for a keyswitch and I wish they just kept it. [laughs]
I'm with you. I mean, to me, Thick Gold is just a brilliant name for a keyswitch and I wish they just kept it. [laughs]
Tisha
00m 54s
I, I do too because the change is confusing. Although, I never really understood what Thick Gold was supposed to really... what the thick part was really supposed to be. But anyway. [laughs]
I, I do too because the change is confusing. Although, I never really understood what Thick Gold was supposed to really... what the thick part was really supposed to be. But anyway. [laughs]
Erez
01m 02s
I just liked it. [laughs]
I just liked it. [laughs]
Tisha
01m 03s
Yeah, it is. It's a fun name, even if it maybe doesn't make the most sense of anything in the world. [laughs]
Yeah, it is. It's a fun name, even if it maybe doesn't make the most sense of anything in the world. [laughs]
Erez
01m 08s
Yeah. I, I think that's half the fun. Like, "Okay, what is thick?"
Yeah. I, I think that's half the fun. Like, "Okay, what is thick?"
Tisha
01m 10s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
01m 10s
Like "What's, what's thick here?"
Like "What's, what's thick here?"
Tisha
01m 10s
Right.
Right.
Erez
01m 11s
Like, it's, it's great. And it, it sounds kind of like vaguely ominous and heavy. Like it's just a good thing.
Like, it's, it's great. And it, it sounds kind of like vaguely ominous and heavy. Like it's just a good thing.
Tisha
01m 15s
[laughs] Right. Yeah. Yeah.
[laughs] Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Erez
01m 16s
So, okay. So both are clicky and both are Kailh, right?
So, okay. So both are clicky and both are Kailh, right?
Tisha
01m 18s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
01m 18s
Which one should we talk about first?
Which one should we talk about first?
Tisha
01m 20s
Well, so first off, I think we can mention a little bit what they have in common, which is that they're both Speed Switches, which means that they actuate right before the click. The actuation point is very high, so if you press the switch slowly, either of them, you will see the character on the screen kind of right before you hear the click.
Well, so first off, I think we can mention a little bit what they have in common, which is that they're both Speed Switches, which means that they actuate right before the click. The actuation point is very high, so if you press the switch slowly, either of them, you will see the character on the screen kind of right before you hear the click.
Erez
01m 37s
Do you think it's possible to use them super, super lightly without having them click?
Do you think it's possible to use them super, super lightly without having them click?
Tisha
01m 40s
Yeah, technically that should be possible. It would be hard to do so consistently, I think. But yeah, I think it is probably possible.
Yeah, technically that should be possible. It would be hard to do so consistently, I think. But yeah, I think it is probably possible.
Erez
01m 46s
Interesting. I've been thinking a lot about pianists and, you know, people trained in other disciplines. I wonder if like there's a skill set where you can train yourself to silently type on clicky switches. [laughs]
Interesting. I've been thinking a lot about pianists and, you know, people trained in other disciplines. I wonder if like there's a skill set where you can train yourself to silently type on clicky switches. [laughs]
Tisha
01m 54s
[laughs] Right. Well, if they're a Speed Switch, you probably could. But that would be, to me at least, and I can tell you that I am a trained, but not professional pianist. I've had decades of piano lessons, so a lot of experience. Trying to type that way, to me, requires quite a bit of tension in your finger and hand muscles. So I think, at least for me, it wouldn't be worth it because it's actually harder to type that way than to type with more force, if that makes sense.
[laughs] Right. Well, if they're a Speed Switch, you probably could. But that would be, to me at least, and I can tell you that I am a trained, but not professional pianist. I've had decades of piano lessons, so a lot of experience. Trying to type that way, to me, requires quite a bit of tension in your finger and hand muscles. So I think, at least for me, it wouldn't be worth it because it's actually harder to type that way than to type with more force, if that makes sense.
Erez
02m 17s
It does. It's less ergonomic. I, I can see that.
It does. It's less ergonomic. I, I can see that.
Tisha
02m 19s
Right. Because you're kind of straining against your natural hand and finger motions.
Right. Because you're kind of straining against your natural hand and finger motions.
Erez
02m 22s
Which is interesting in contrast to, for example, the wrist rest, where we often tell people, "Don't use the wrist rests." And that when you're not using the wrist rests you are using your body to prop up the other parts of your body, but that seems more ergonomic sometimes, right?
Which is interesting in contrast to, for example, the wrist rest, where we often tell people, "Don't use the wrist rests." And that when you're not using the wrist rests you are using your body to prop up the other parts of your body, but that seems more ergonomic sometimes, right?
Tisha
02m 32s
Yeah, that's true. I think that that is maybe more about positioning than, I guess individual movements. That's just an opinion, though.
Yeah, that's true. I think that that is maybe more about positioning than, I guess individual movements. That's just an opinion, though.
Erez
02m 38s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
02m 38s
And it is coming from, [laughs] it's the opinion of someone who doesn't use a wrist rest.
And it is coming from, [laughs] it's the opinion of someone who doesn't use a wrist rest.
Erez
02m 41s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
02m 41s
Um, so-
Um, so-
Erez
02m 41s
And was a pianist right? I mean that-.
And was a pianist right? I mean that-.
Tisha
02m 42s
Right.
Right.
Erez
02m 43s
I think those two are related, but that's foreshadowing for maybe something that will come later, but yeah.
I think those two are related, but that's foreshadowing for maybe something that will come later, but yeah.
Tisha
02m 45s
[laughs] Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, the point is that these actuate very early in the downstroke, which some people really like, and some people don't really notice, and I would say a small proportion of people don't like.
[laughs] Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, the point is that these actuate very early in the downstroke, which some people really like, and some people don't really notice, and I would say a small proportion of people don't like.
Erez
02m 55s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
02m 55s
So if you know that you're someone who doesn't like that real early actuation, then you may not really be into these switches.
So if you know that you're someone who doesn't like that real early actuation, then you may not really be into these switches.
Erez
02m 58s
Do you think that increases the, the very high up actuation, does that increase the chances of chatter? Chatter is when uh... Sorry, just wanna use kind of jargon.
Do you think that increases the, the very high up actuation, does that increase the chances of chatter? Chatter is when uh... Sorry, just wanna use kind of jargon.
Tisha
03m 02s
Right, sure.
Right, sure.
Erez
03m 03s
So chatter is when you press a key once, but you get more than one character on the screen. So is that more likely to happen with these?
So chatter is when you press a key once, but you get more than one character on the screen. So is that more likely to happen with these?
Tisha
03m 08s
You know, I'm not sure. Maybe. It does increase the chance of just plain accidental keystrokes. You know, you bump a switch by accident, or if you sit with your fingers on the keys when you're not typing, maybe you tap your fingers or wiggle them a little bit. You're more likely to get an accidental keystroke. Chatter, I mean maybe. But-
You know, I'm not sure. Maybe. It does increase the chance of just plain accidental keystrokes. You know, you bump a switch by accident, or if you sit with your fingers on the keys when you're not typing, maybe you tap your fingers or wiggle them a little bit. You're more likely to get an accidental keystroke. Chatter, I mean maybe. But-
Erez
03m 21s
Have we heard from people... Like have people told us that?
Have we heard from people... Like have people told us that?
Tisha
03m 22s
I don't... We have heard from a few peo-... And by a few, I mean, let's say two or three in the past year [laughs] who have had some, persistently chattering switches that were one of the Speed Switches, one of the Kailh Speed Switches. But considering the number of people out there who have these switches, that's a really low number.
I don't... We have heard from a few peo-... And by a few, I mean, let's say two or three in the past year [laughs] who have had some, persistently chattering switches that were one of the Speed Switches, one of the Kailh Speed Switches. But considering the number of people out there who have these switches, that's a really low number.
Erez
03m 36s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
03m 37s
Low enough for me to think it's probably more just a fluke-
Low enough for me to think it's probably more just a fluke-
Erez
03m 39s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
03m 39s
and not a trend or... That's not really the right word. [laughs]
and not a trend or... That's not really the right word. [laughs]
Erez
03m 41s
Not like a systemic issue?
Not like a systemic issue?
Tisha
03m 43s
Right. But I don't know, you know? I'm not enough of a either statistician or mechanically minded person to have a real great opinion on that [laughs] I think.
Right. But I don't know, you know? I'm not enough of a either statistician or mechanically minded person to have a real great opinion on that [laughs] I think.
Erez
03m 50s
I hear. Yeah. But anecdotally, I mean, I agree. It's one of those things where just reading about the switch, I would think, oh, you might get chatter. But then so many people use it, and yeah, I, I personally also haven't really seen people say, "Oh, it chatters." So I, I guess they solved it somehow. Yeah.
I hear. Yeah. But anecdotally, I mean, I agree. It's one of those things where just reading about the switch, I would think, oh, you might get chatter. But then so many people use it, and yeah, I, I personally also haven't really seen people say, "Oh, it chatters." So I, I guess they solved it somehow. Yeah.
Tisha
04m 00s
Right, right. I think that they're probably not more likely than other switches, but that is just, I guess kind of an opinion. [laughs]
Right, right. I think that they're probably not more likely than other switches, but that is just, I guess kind of an opinion. [laughs]
Erez
04m 06s
Yeah. No, that makes sense to me, actually, now that I think of it because in firmware we use something called the debounce, which basically allows the processor to filter out repeated presses if they happen, you know, if they're fast enough. So, it only lets out one.
Yeah. No, that makes sense to me, actually, now that I think of it because in firmware we use something called the debounce, which basically allows the processor to filter out repeated presses if they happen, you know, if they're fast enough. So, it only lets out one.
Tisha
04m 17s
Right.
Right.
Erez
04m 17s
And maybe that's what helps there. I don't know. So, okay. Should we talk about Kailh Gold first?
And maybe that's what helps there. I don't know. So, okay. Should we talk about Kailh Gold first?
Tisha
04m 21s
Sure. We'll talk about Kailh Gold, which is, you know, both of these switches are... If you could, [laughs] if you can think of key switches as fun, I would say both of these keyswitches are fun.
Sure. We'll talk about Kailh Gold, which is, you know, both of these switches are... If you could, [laughs] if you can think of key switches as fun, I would say both of these keyswitches are fun.
Erez
04m 29s
Oh, the switches are fun.
Oh, the switches are fun.
Tisha
04m 30s
Switches. Um-
Switches. Um-
Erez
04m 30s
They are so fun.
They are so fun.
Tisha
04m 30s
Yeah. And the Gold is just a, I don't know, like a really crisp feeling switch.
Yeah. And the Gold is just a, I don't know, like a really crisp feeling switch.
Erez
04m 36s
Yeah, is that clicking, is that clicking Gold that I hear there?
Yeah, is that clicking, is that clicking Gold that I hear there?
Tisha
04m 37s
Yeah, that's Gold. [laughs]
Yeah, that's Gold. [laughs]
Erez
04m 39s
If you wanna put it close to the mic.
If you wanna put it close to the mic.
Tisha
04m 40s
Sure.
Sure.
Erez
04m 41s
What, what keyboard is it on?
What, what keyboard is it on?
Tisha
04m 42s
It is in a, this is an ErgoDox EZ.
It is in a, this is an ErgoDox EZ.
Erez
04m 42s
Oh, interesting. I have an ErgoDox EZ with Gold as well. I couldn't find my Thick Gold one, but I have a Gold one.
Oh, interesting. I have an ErgoDox EZ with Gold as well. I couldn't find my Thick Gold one, but I have a Gold one.
Tisha
04m 42s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
04m 48s
I'm going to, I'm going to play it to the mic just because we always say, you know, don't trust these recordings. And maybe you can play yours. Same keyboard, same switches, different room, different mic-
I'm going to, I'm going to play it to the mic just because we always say, you know, don't trust these recordings. And maybe you can play yours. Same keyboard, same switches, different room, different mic-
Tisha
04m 52s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
04m 53s
and I bet it's going to sound completely different.
and I bet it's going to sound completely different.
Tisha
04m 54s
Oh, yeah. Sure.
Oh, yeah. Sure.
Erez
04m 55s
So, so here's mine.
So, so here's mine.
Tisha
04m 55s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
05m 00s
Okay.
Okay.
Tisha
05m 01s
Okay. Yeah, mine.
Okay. Yeah, mine.
Erez
05m 02s
That was it?
That was it?
Tisha
05m 04s
Yep.
Yep.
Erez
05m 05s
Oh, that was a short one, okay. I was like, I kept waiting for more. Do, do you wanna do a bit more?
Oh, that was a short one, okay. I was like, I kept waiting for more. Do, do you wanna do a bit more?
Tisha
05m 07s
Oh, sure.
Oh, sure.
Erez
05m 08s
Yeah. I think it sounds... I don't know. Well, we'll know in the audio. We'll know in the end how different it sounds.
Yeah. I think it sounds... I don't know. Well, we'll know in the audio. We'll know in the end how different it sounds.
Tisha
05m 11s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
05m 11s
But I have a feeling it sounds really different.
But I have a feeling it sounds really different.
Tisha
05m 12s
Right. Right, yeah. Me, too. I tend to use the Cherry MX Blue as the kind of baseline to compare other clicky switches to because it's a, a popular and well-known one. So, the Kailh Gold, to me, feels... I, I think the rating might be around the same, but it feels a little lighter to me than Cherry MX Blue. And I think it's because the tactile bump is a little less firm. Like Cherry MX Blue, I feel like you really kind of have to push through that bump, you know?
Right. Right, yeah. Me, too. I tend to use the Cherry MX Blue as the kind of baseline to compare other clicky switches to because it's a, a popular and well-known one. So, the Kailh Gold, to me, feels... I, I think the rating might be around the same, but it feels a little lighter to me than Cherry MX Blue. And I think it's because the tactile bump is a little less firm. Like Cherry MX Blue, I feel like you really kind of have to push through that bump, you know?
Erez
05m 36s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tisha
05m 36s
It, it feels like more of a stop. Kailh Gold, it's a little gentler. You don't really have to push through it quite as much. but-
It, it feels like more of a stop. Kailh Gold, it's a little gentler. You don't really have to push through it quite as much. but-
Erez
05m 41s
It's really interesting.
It's really interesting.
Tisha
05m 41s
Yeah. It's kind of a medium weight switch overall. It feels, it's got a nice substantial feeling under your fingers without feeling sluggish or overly, you know, heavy.
Yeah. It's kind of a medium weight switch overall. It feels, it's got a nice substantial feeling under your fingers without feeling sluggish or overly, you know, heavy.
Erez
05m 48s
'Cause I also noticed that it feels somehow a little bit crisper than the MX Blue.
'Cause I also noticed that it feels somehow a little bit crisper than the MX Blue.
Tisha
05m 51s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
05m 51s
And I had always thought it's the audio. It's like the, the pitch of the click, because it's a... The click-
And I had always thought it's the audio. It's like the, the pitch of the click, because it's a... The click-
Tisha
05m 55s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
05m 55s
Like the audible click is, I would say it's crisper, right? Would you, would you... than the Blue?
Like the audible click is, I would say it's crisper, right? Would you, would you... than the Blue?
Tisha
05m 58s
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Erez
05m 59s
And I thought that's why, but it's... So it's actually maybe two things. Like it's one, the kind of more subtle actuation, and two, the audio characteristics of it, right?
And I thought that's why, but it's... So it's actually maybe two things. Like it's one, the kind of more subtle actuation, and two, the audio characteristics of it, right?
Tisha
06m 05s
Right.
Right.
Erez
06m 05s
Interesting.
Interesting.
Tisha
06m 06s
Yeah. And it's got a, another comparison to the Blue is that I think the click is a little lower pitched.
Yeah. And it's got a, another comparison to the Blue is that I think the click is a little lower pitched.
Erez
06m 11s
Oh, lower pitched, because I just said higher pitched. Interesting.
Oh, lower pitched, because I just said higher pitched. Interesting.
Tisha
06m 13s
Oh, did you? Yeah, I, I guess I didn't catch that. To me... So again, your mileage may vary, but the Blue has that almost like ticky click- [laughs]
Oh, did you? Yeah, I, I guess I didn't catch that. To me... So again, your mileage may vary, but the Blue has that almost like ticky click- [laughs]
Erez
06m 19s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
06m 19s
for lack of a better word. It's, it's high pitched and tappy or, or ticky. So...
for lack of a better word. It's, it's high pitched and tappy or, or ticky. So...
Erez
06m 23s
That was Blue.
That was Blue.
Tisha
06m 24s
That's Blue in a Planck, Gold in the ErgoDox. There's, I don't know. This is all, [laughs] this is all very spec-
That's Blue in a Planck, Gold in the ErgoDox. There's, I don't know. This is all, [laughs] this is all very spec-
Erez
06m 31s
Can you go like, can you go like Blue, Gold, Blue, Gold, like right one after the other a few times?
Can you go like, can you go like Blue, Gold, Blue, Gold, like right one after the other a few times?
Tisha
06m 33s
Sure. Um, just... Oops. I'm knocking over everything on my desk now. Um, [laughs] uh, just bearing in mind that, uh, they're in two different keyboards.
Sure. Um, just... Oops. I'm knocking over everything on my desk now. Um, [laughs] uh, just bearing in mind that, uh, they're in two different keyboards.
Erez
06m 40s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tisha
06m 40s
So I'll start with Blue and I'll alternate Blue, Gold, Blue, Gold.
So I'll start with Blue and I'll alternate Blue, Gold, Blue, Gold.
Erez
06m 43s
Mm-hmm [ affirmative]. Okay. Yeah. No, definitely-
Mm-hmm [ affirmative]. Okay. Yeah. No, definitely-
Tisha
06m 47s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
06m 47s
definitely lower pitched. I was wrong. It is, it is a lower pitch than the, uh, than the Blue. You're right.
definitely lower pitched. I was wrong. It is, it is a lower pitch than the, uh, than the Blue. You're right.
Tisha
06m 51s
It's like crunchier-
It's like crunchier-
Erez
06m 52s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
06m 52s
sorta. I don't know. Yeah. Like a more resonant sound.
sorta. I don't know. Yeah. Like a more resonant sound.
Erez
06m 55s
Cool.
Cool.
Tisha
06m 56s
Yeah. I also think that it feels a little springier than the Blue. Like, I think that the upstroke is a little firmer. Like when the spring springs back up, it does so a little bit more, uh, energetically- [laughs]
Yeah. I also think that it feels a little springier than the Blue. Like, I think that the upstroke is a little firmer. Like when the spring springs back up, it does so a little bit more, uh, energetically- [laughs]
Erez
07m 06s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
07m 06s
than the Blue does.
than the Blue does.
Erez
07m 07s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
07m 07s
So I guess what that means is that it feels a little bit lighter in the downstroke, but a little bit firmer in the upstroke.
So I guess what that means is that it feels a little bit lighter in the downstroke, but a little bit firmer in the upstroke.
Erez
07m 13s
Interesting.
Interesting.
Tisha
07m 14s
These are pretty subtle differences, I think, but yeah.
These are pretty subtle differences, I think, but yeah.
Erez
07m 16s
Well, the whole thing is very nuanced, you know?
Well, the whole thing is very nuanced, you know?
Tisha
07m 17s
It is.
It is.
Erez
07m 17s
I was telling someone about, I was telling someone about the podcast the other day. Not a keyboard person, and I was trying to explain, yeah, no. We don't even talk about the keyboards. We talk about like-
I was telling someone about, I was telling someone about the podcast the other day. Not a keyboard person, and I was trying to explain, yeah, no. We don't even talk about the keyboards. We talk about like-
Tisha
07m 22s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
07m 22s
the little parts in the keyboard. It took me so long. It took me like five minutes to explain it. So yeah-
the little parts in the keyboard. It took me so long. It took me like five minutes to explain it. So yeah-
Tisha
07m 26s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
07m 26s
nuanced. It's, it's definitely nuanced.
nuanced. It's, it's definitely nuanced.
Tisha
07m 28s
Right.
Right.
Erez
07m 28s
But it kind of goes with the territory.
But it kind of goes with the territory.
Tisha
07m 29s
Maybe their eyes glazed over and they quickly changed the subject. [laughs]
Maybe their eyes glazed over and they quickly changed the subject. [laughs]
Erez
07m 31s
It was like, "Wait. You have a full podcast-
It was like, "Wait. You have a full podcast-
Tisha
07m 32s
Right.
Right.
Erez
07m 32s
about, about keyboards?" I was like, "No, no, no. It's not about the keyboards. That's too broad of a topic. It's about the switches inside, right?" [laughs]
about, about keyboards?" I was like, "No, no, no. It's not about the keyboards. That's too broad of a topic. It's about the switches inside, right?" [laughs]
Tisha
07m 38s
[laughs] Right.
[laughs] Right.
Erez
07m 39s
Okay, so anything else we wanna say about the Gold?
Okay, so anything else we wanna say about the Gold?
Tisha
07m 41s
I don't think so. I think that covers it pretty well. It's nice, kind of medium weight clicky switch. Nice medium weight clicky Speed Switch.
I don't think so. I think that covers it pretty well. It's nice, kind of medium weight clicky switch. Nice medium weight clicky Speed Switch.
Erez
07m 48s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
07m 49s
There you go. [laughs]
There you go. [laughs]
Erez
07m 49s
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Quite a mouthful, but yeah, I see that's-
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Quite a mouthful, but yeah, I see that's-
Tisha
07m 50s
Right.
Right.
Erez
07m 50s
very accurate. And so then Bronze or Thick Gold.
very accurate. And so then Bronze or Thick Gold.
Tisha
07m 53s
Right. So another clicky switch. The things that it has in common are that it's a Kailh Speed Switch and it's clicky, but the Thick Gold/Bronze is really, kind of stands on its own because it's extra clicky. [laughs]
Right. So another clicky switch. The things that it has in common are that it's a Kailh Speed Switch and it's clicky, but the Thick Gold/Bronze is really, kind of stands on its own because it's extra clicky. [laughs]
Erez
08m 04s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
08m 04s
It clicks both on the downstroke and the upstroke. So you get two little clicks per keystroke.
It clicks both on the downstroke and the upstroke. So you get two little clicks per keystroke.
Erez
08m 07s
That was so surprising to me when I first tested it. I was like, "Wait, is that really what I'm hearing?"
That was so surprising to me when I first tested it. I was like, "Wait, is that really what I'm hearing?"
Tisha
08m 09s
Right.
Right.
Erez
08m 10s
That's, it's, to me, that's awesome. Like, that's a very fundamental difference. That's actually not a subtle thing because it-
That's, it's, to me, that's awesome. Like, that's a very fundamental difference. That's actually not a subtle thing because it-
Tisha
08m 14s
Right.
Right.
Erez
08m 14s
it makes it sound as though you're typing twice as fast.
it makes it sound as though you're typing twice as fast.
Tisha
08m 17s
[laughs] Right, yeah.
[laughs] Right, yeah.
Erez
08m 17s
It's kind of awesome.
It's kind of awesome.
Tisha
08m 18s
Right. So, if you're a fast typer it's, like it's a lot of sound. [laughs]
Right. So, if you're a fast typer it's, like it's a lot of sound. [laughs]
Erez
08m 22s
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Tisha
08m 22s
It's not-
It's not-
Erez
08m 23s
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Tisha
08m 23s
It's not a, like a super loud click. It's just a lot of sound.
It's not a, like a super loud click. It's just a lot of sound.
Erez
08m 24s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
08m 25s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
08m 25s
And the downstroke and the upstroke clicks are subtly different, right? It's not the same click. It sounds a bit different, down and up.
And the downstroke and the upstroke clicks are subtly different, right? It's not the same click. It sounds a bit different, down and up.
Tisha
08m 29s
Right. Yeah, the up is a little... The downstroke is the, the main click and the upstroke is almost like an echo.
Right. Yeah, the up is a little... The downstroke is the, the main click and the upstroke is almost like an echo.
Erez
08m 33s
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. That's cool.
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. That's cool.
Tisha
08m 35s
Yeah. Otherwise it is, I would say, a little lighter feeling than the Gold with an even gentler feeling, tactile bump, like tac- tactil- tactility... What? Tactile-ness-wise. [laughs] It's fairly gentle. It's not a, it's not a big bump.
Yeah. Otherwise it is, I would say, a little lighter feeling than the Gold with an even gentler feeling, tactile bump, like tac- tactil- tactility... What? Tactile-ness-wise. [laughs] It's fairly gentle. It's not a, it's not a big bump.
Erez
08m 47s
So you've got a lot of oomph, a lot of noise and kind of feedback-
So you've got a lot of oomph, a lot of noise and kind of feedback-
Tisha
08m 49s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
08m 49s
for not a ton of input from your side. Like you don't have to like really push hard to get that sound out. You're just-
for not a ton of input from your side. Like you don't have to like really push hard to get that sound out. You're just-
Tisha
08m 53s
Right.
Right.
Erez
08m 54s
Yeah, you kind of type gently and get a whole click fiesta-
Yeah, you kind of type gently and get a whole click fiesta-
Tisha
08m 56s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
08m 56s
on the keyboard.
on the keyboard.
Tisha
08m 57s
Right, exactly. And I would say it is a slightly, just very slightly higher pitched click than the Gold, probably sitting between the Gold and Blue as far as click, pitch [laughs] goes, and maybe just a touch softer sounding. So overall I would say it's a gentler, softer switch than Kailh Gold, but with more clicks. [laughs]
Right, exactly. And I would say it is a slightly, just very slightly higher pitched click than the Gold, probably sitting between the Gold and Blue as far as click, pitch [laughs] goes, and maybe just a touch softer sounding. So overall I would say it's a gentler, softer switch than Kailh Gold, but with more clicks. [laughs]
Erez
09m 15s
Right. Really interesting. I really enjoyed, back when I was using a clicky switch, I really enjoyed the Thick Gold. I used it for a good year or more-
Right. Really interesting. I really enjoyed, back when I was using a clicky switch, I really enjoyed the Thick Gold. I used it for a good year or more-
Tisha
09m 20s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
09m 21s
and I never thought of it being gentle, but it is. It's actually easy to type on.
and I never thought of it being gentle, but it is. It's actually easy to type on.
Tisha
09m 23s
Right.
Right.
Erez
09m 24s
Which I think, again, is part of why I like, the Silver so much, going back to the Silver because you don't have to work hard. You just kind of type and, and it's easier for me to get into flow there. And some people say that clicky switches help them get into a state of flow, kind of help, I don't know-
Which I think, again, is part of why I like, the Silver so much, going back to the Silver because you don't have to work hard. You just kind of type and, and it's easier for me to get into flow there. And some people say that clicky switches help them get into a state of flow, kind of help, I don't know-
Tisha
09m 35s
Sure.
Sure.
Erez
09m 35s
create a soundscape of productivity. I don't know. As you're
create a soundscape of productivity. I don't know. As you're
Tisha
09m 37s
[laughs] Right, yeah.
[laughs] Right, yeah.
Erez
09m 38s
getting your thoughts out. And I think maybe this combo of, yes, it's super clicky. It makes a lot of sound, like you say, but it doesn't require too, too much effort to actuate. That sounds like an interesting combination in terms of flow.
getting your thoughts out. And I think maybe this combo of, yes, it's super clicky. It makes a lot of sound, like you say, but it doesn't require too, too much effort to actuate. That sounds like an interesting combination in terms of flow.
Tisha
09m 47s
Right, yeah. I think it can, it could be almost like a white noise generator.
Right, yeah. I think it can, it could be almost like a white noise generator.
Erez
09m 50s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
09m 50s
If you're typing fairly quickly and yeah, so you've just got this almost background noise because it's not super loud as far as clicky switches go. Yeah. The way I sometimes describe it, if you're a particularly fast typist, that it's kind of got this dot matrix printer a few rooms away sound. [ laughs]
If you're typing fairly quickly and yeah, so you've just got this almost background noise because it's not super loud as far as clicky switches go. Yeah. The way I sometimes describe it, if you're a particularly fast typist, that it's kind of got this dot matrix printer a few rooms away sound. [ laughs]
Erez
10m 04s
I love that.
I love that.
Tisha
10m 04s
Now, you know, again, showing my age, I don't know how many... [ laughs] Some people are going to know what I'm talking about firsthand and some people aren't. [laughs]
Now, you know, again, showing my age, I don't know how many... [ laughs] Some people are going to know what I'm talking about firsthand and some people aren't. [laughs]
Erez
10m 09s
Yeah. I mean, I had one, but, you know-
Yeah. I mean, I had one, but, you know-
Tisha
10m 11s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
10m 11s
I mainly remember the perforated papers on the sides. I loved those.
I mainly remember the perforated papers on the sides. I loved those.
Tisha
10m 13s
Right. Yeah, me too. [laughs]
Right. Yeah, me too. [laughs]
Erez
10m 14s
That was so cool to just kind of... It was like, it was, it was great.
That was so cool to just kind of... It was like, it was, it was great.
Tisha
10m 17s
[laughs] Oh.
[laughs] Oh.
Erez
10m 17s
I'd make long, long strips of those perforations.
I'd make long, long strips of those perforations.
Tisha
10m 18s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
10m 18s
It was great.
It was great.
Tisha
10m 19s
[laughs] Yeah.
[laughs] Yeah.
Erez
10m 20s
And the paper size wasn't even standard on ours, anyway. It wasn't like A4 letter. It was just this weird size. I don't know. It was cool.
And the paper size wasn't even standard on ours, anyway. It wasn't like A4 letter. It was just this weird size. I don't know. It was cool.
Tisha
10m 24s
Yeah. I, that's... [laughs] I think mine probably was also an, an odd size. I don't... Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah. I, that's... [laughs] I think mine probably was also an, an odd size. I don't... Yeah, I don't know.
Erez
10m 28s
Awesome. So I guess what we always say about clicky switches, right, and especially in the context of flow and stuff, I guess it's flow for the typist. [laughs]
Awesome. So I guess what we always say about clicky switches, right, and especially in the context of flow and stuff, I guess it's flow for the typist. [laughs]
Tisha
10m 35s
Right.
Right.
Erez
10m 35s
They're going to be fairly disruptive to a-
They're going to be fairly disruptive to a-
Tisha
10m 37s
Right.
Right.
Erez
10m 37s
a lot of people in the room, I think, right?
a lot of people in the room, I think, right?
Tisha
10m 38s
Yeah, yeah. Before buying a keyboard [laughs] with clicky switches or changing out your switches for something clicky, you might want to check. If you have an office mate or a housemate, you might want to check with them [laughs] and see what they think about typing noise. Let's see. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna put the mic back down, uh, here and... So that's the Thick Gold.
Yeah, yeah. Before buying a keyboard [laughs] with clicky switches or changing out your switches for something clicky, you might want to check. If you have an office mate or a housemate, you might want to check with them [laughs] and see what they think about typing noise. Let's see. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna put the mic back down, uh, here and... So that's the Thick Gold.
Erez
10m 53s
Mm-hmm.[affirmative]. I wouldn't mind that. I don't know, but I like typing.
Mm-hmm.[affirmative]. I wouldn't mind that. I don't know, but I like typing.
Tisha
10m 55s
Right. In a way, I think... I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to describe this very well, but it's almost more like one continuous sound than the discrete tap, tap, tap of other clicky switches.
Right. In a way, I think... I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to describe this very well, but it's almost more like one continuous sound than the discrete tap, tap, tap of other clicky switches.
Erez
11m 04s
Yes.
Yes.
Tisha
11m 05s
Because the, because they're so close together, that it's almost more like a, kind of a white noise or kind of a static noise than, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.
Because the, because they're so close together, that it's almost more like a, kind of a white noise or kind of a static noise than, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.
Erez
11m 10s
Yup. Yeah, totally, totally. You know, this reminds me of a Mac app I've seen a few weeks ago I think. It's an app that you can install on your Mac, and then it makes your keyboard click in your headphones.
Yup. Yeah, totally, totally. You know, this reminds me of a Mac app I've seen a few weeks ago I think. It's an app that you can install on your Mac, and then it makes your keyboard click in your headphones.
Tisha
11m 18s
Oh. [laughs] Uh-huh [affirmative].
Oh. [laughs] Uh-huh [affirmative].
Erez
11m 19s
So it turns your laptop keyboard into a clicky keyboard, and it's low latency enough that I think it's pretty convincing. But it's only for you. So it's a fun solution for that, I guess.
So it turns your laptop keyboard into a clicky keyboard, and it's low latency enough that I think it's pretty convincing. But it's only for you. So it's a fun solution for that, I guess.
Tisha
11m 24s
Right. That's interesting. That would be, I think that would be kind of an odd, like, kind of the cognitive dissonance-
Right. That's interesting. That would be, I think that would be kind of an odd, like, kind of the cognitive dissonance-
Erez
11m 28s
Right.
Right.
Tisha
11m 28s
where you've got this very flat, shallow Mac keyboard, you know, with the little chiclet keys that barely press down at all, and then click, click, click in your ears. [laughs]
where you've got this very flat, shallow Mac keyboard, you know, with the little chiclet keys that barely press down at all, and then click, click, click in your ears. [laughs]
Erez
11m 34s
Right. Like these massive thunks. I don't know. When I-
Right. Like these massive thunks. I don't know. When I-
Tisha
11m 36s
[laughs]
[laughs]
Erez
11m 36s
actually tried it and it wasn't bad, actually. It wasn't like big thunks, but yeah, if you use like the sound of like, you know, a big resonant, boy, that'll be, that'll be really weird, yeah.
actually tried it and it wasn't bad, actually. It wasn't like big thunks, but yeah, if you use like the sound of like, you know, a big resonant, boy, that'll be, that'll be really weird, yeah.
Tisha
11m 42s
[laughs] Yeah. But interesting, yeah. Uh, so if you like that sort of thing, then yeah. I think that one of these, one of the Kailh Gold switches might be right up your alley. The Gold for something a little louder and a little firmer, uh, the Thick Gold/Bronze for something a little gentler, but noisier, but not in a loudness sense, [laughs] if that makes sense.
[laughs] Yeah. But interesting, yeah. Uh, so if you like that sort of thing, then yeah. I think that one of these, one of the Kailh Gold switches might be right up your alley. The Gold for something a little louder and a little firmer, uh, the Thick Gold/Bronze for something a little gentler, but noisier, but not in a loudness sense, [laughs] if that makes sense.
Erez
11m 57s
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Yeah.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Yeah.
Tisha
11m 58s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
11m 58s
I mean, I have to say that is not a distinction I had in my mind before you said it-
I mean, I have to say that is not a distinction I had in my mind before you said it-
Tisha
12m 01s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erez
12m 01s
so, so that's a great summary. I think it's a really good way to look at these both.
so, so that's a great summary. I think it's a really good way to look at these both.
Tisha
12m 03s
Right. Yeah, I think we tend to use the term noisy to mean loud, but in this case noisiness and volume are kind of two different dimensions here. [laughs] Yeah. They're both fun switches for the typist. [laughs]
Right. Yeah, I think we tend to use the term noisy to mean loud, but in this case noisiness and volume are kind of two different dimensions here. [laughs] Yeah. They're both fun switches for the typist. [laughs]
Erez
12m 13s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tisha
12m 14s
They're both Speed Switches, so that's a pro or con depending on your tastes.
They're both Speed Switches, so that's a pro or con depending on your tastes.
Erez
12m 17s
And use case, I would say, too, right? Because-
And use case, I would say, too, right? Because-
Tisha
12m 19s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
12m 19s
Speed Switches were originally aimed, I think, at the gamers and like first person shooter type of scenarios where you have to really spam the keyboard sometimes and things like that.
Speed Switches were originally aimed, I think, at the gamers and like first person shooter type of scenarios where you have to really spam the keyboard sometimes and things like that.
Tisha
12m 24s
Right.
Right.
Erez
12m 24s
I think, no?
I think, no?
Tisha
12m 25s
Right. Yeah, I think so, too. I think that they've also kind of broken out of that mold and there are plenty of people who aren't gamers maybe at all, or only just casually or something, who still like these switches just for typing-
Right. Yeah, I think so, too. I think that they've also kind of broken out of that mold and there are plenty of people who aren't gamers maybe at all, or only just casually or something, who still like these switches just for typing-
Erez
12m 32s
Oh, totally.
Oh, totally.
Tisha
12m 33s
coding or typing or whatever, yeah.
coding or typing or whatever, yeah.
Erez
12m 33s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tisha
12m 34s
Yeah, if you're a light touch typer, I think especially the Speed Switches may appeal.
Yeah, if you're a light touch typer, I think especially the Speed Switches may appeal.
Erez
12m 36s
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Tisha
12m 37s
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erez
12m 37s
Cool. Thank you very much.
Cool. Thank you very much.
Tisha
12m 38s
Sure. Thank you.
Sure. Thank you.
Erez
12m 39s
Talk to you soon.
Talk to you soon.
Tisha
12m 39s
Yep.
Yep.